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| Subject - New code for receptacles? | |
| JerryB52 |
 One of my apprentices said that in the new code it states that the receptacle shall be installed with the ground in the up position. Is this true??? |
| Ryan_J | No it is not true. :) |
| JimmyDee | That of course would be upside down and not installed in a workmanship like manner.  (lets see if this starts something.)Jim |
| lctrc789 | Jerry I know where you are coming from. When the 1999 NEC came out we had a lot of people who stated that the receptacles had to be installed with the ground in the up Position. I had stated many times some one show me where it states that at. Of course NO ONe could, it was a rumor I guess. I used to teach code classes part time, and I was an electrical inspector, as well as a Journeyman wireman and hold a masters license. That of course doesn"t mean I know it all I can always learn. From what I had gatherd I was told that the reason they have to be installed with the ground up was in case if some one removed a recpt. when the power was on this would keep any object from falling in to the hot wires, as they would be on the bottom. LOL Again I am sure many of us have heard many stories on why etc. I have never seen anything stated in the code that states thisand would guess in 2008 we will have more rumors |
| cs409 | with the new book, comes the new rumors LOL....... my thoughts about installing the recep with the groung in the up position...in the event that something falls on the plug and dislodges(did i spell that right?)the plug,then the first thing you will loose and IMO is the groung, i would rather loose that last! |
| cs409 | but, if the same happens with the recep installed with the ground down, then the potential is there for the bite of your life! seems we cant come up with a fix for all the what if's but it does make for better designs. |
| Ryan_J | Hi Jimmy. I personally think that the term "neat and workmanlike manner" should be deleted from the code. Talk about a vague and unenforcable concept!!! I have never written up anything in violation of 110.12, and I don't thik I ever will. If the installation is that bad, there are probably other violations as well that would make workmanship pale in comparison! :) |
| JimmyDee | We had a contractor here that had the workmanship invoked on him for having ivory devices and plates in a family room with dark paneling. (what the customer wanted) By the time it was over, the inspector lost his job. Needless to say it was only one of many such calls. The state chief inspector got involved and the township ended up reimbursing the contractor for his added work and the inspector is no longer employed as an inspector. Sometimes, justice does prevail. Jim |
| JimmyDee | The ground up or down battle has been going on for years. The 14 edition of "Electrical Wiring Residential" by Mullin is rather emphatic about the ground being up. Says, if a metal plate is used and if the plate screw comes out, (never seen it happen) and if the plug is not all the way in and if the plate falls off, it could cause the plate to short circuit across the plug blades. Truth is that the UL lists the device to be used either way and but I personally think it looks better to have the ground down. Back 40 years ago when I started, in this locality, it was considered a strong quality issue. If the job was done correctly from one end to the other, grounds would be down. If some backyard mechanic did the wiring, they would be up. Funny part about this, 80% of the time back then, it was true. Oh how traditions rule us. Jim |
| iwire | Which way up do you want? The Company I work for has a grounds up for vertical outlets or neutral up for horizontal outlets policy. This is for two reasons. 1)A standard direction had to be chosen, we have about 200 electricians and helpers, all them must do things the same way.  2)Most of the engineers want grounds up anyway.  We primarily do commercial work, metal plates and cord caps with ground pins are most common so IMO it makes a bit of sense to put grounds up. Now think about most appliances plugged into outlets at a house. Very few have 3 wire cord caps, most are simple 2 wire cord caps, this being the case it will not make a bit of difference which way up the outlet is installed as there will be no grounding pin to deflect anything from falling on the neutral and hot. Put them whatever way makes you happy! |
| JimmyDee | That 4 plex sure solves the problem of which way. I do find it interesting that the yoke the receptacles are mounted on have the writing on them so that when it is in the position to read it properly, the ground hole is down. Wonder why that is. I also find it interesting that switches with the off in the down position, the writing on the yoke is the same way as the recept with the ground down. Very interesting. Jim |
| iwire | Jimmy I grew up with grounds down so I still think grounds up looks funny even though I have installed a ton of em grounds up. I have even seen yokes that are marked top, still means nothing. Take a look at a GFCI receptacle the words "TEST" & "RESET" are printed both ways. The following is from Pass and Seymour's FAQs. quote: I say go we go back to two wire outlets and we won't have to think about this anymore.  Bob |
| iwire | How about this one?
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| JimmyDee | quote: I like it. Do they actually make one like it or is this doctored up? Jim |
| lctrc789 | I have seen these type of receptacles with one ground up and one down, I like them ground down I guess I come from the old school. Many refrigerators, freezers and washers etc. look funny with the ground in the up position and I think it could cause some cord problems when people have to force two in one recpt. and the cords become stressed, I think many of you know what I am referring to. The cords aren't made to go upside down. I do like the recpt. that has one up and one down. |
| Pierre Belarge | Bob Sometimes you truly amaze me - that is a great photo of the receptacle with the grounds in both positions. BTW: just my opinion, we cannot wire or install for 'WHAT IF', it would make this business a disaster everyday. We go to work and wire for the quality of work we install and don't worry about what someone may do to our installation tomorrow. Pierre |
| iwire | Pierre Thanks but that is from www.joetedesco.com I do not know if it is real or a phony. |
| Electricman | Just MHO Looks like a phony to me, screw color,grounded cond and ungrounded slot on the same side. |
| lctrc789 | Scott, I think it is a matter of preference on how to do these. I don't think it has ever been an issue, before up or down, what is the real difference? Most appliances have the ground down, and many such as double insulated etc. do not even have a ground. It would be nice if there was a standard way to do these but IMO, I don't think it matters. |
| Scott Vickrey | More on the subject...Similar Topic
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| Scott Vickrey | Just my opinion. I like standards. I wish they would pick a standard direction and put it in the 2008 code. Does anyone know if this has been purposed before? |
| CWC2004 | quote: Its not real. The gounded and ungrounded are on the same bridge...good try though & keep working with photoshop.lol |
| tanderson | quote:OOOOH Jim you know how to srirr it up ...lol. All though the nec dosnt have a requirement for up or down grounds i do find that if the grounds are placed up there are alot more cords and equipment that dont have the missing ground prongs from their cords. If you watch ppl on the job site trip over or just yank out the cords from the out lets they tend to pull down on them this will snap the ground prong off and you know they never get repaired unless they have to. Just my two cents on the subject. |
| wireman | I have to jump in on this one, however late. I recall a story i read about an electrician working on a house where a sewing needle had fallen behind a table (in a young girl's bedroom, next to curtains)fell into the the plug and had burned halfway through the prongs when he found it. Said it was the best argument he'd seen for instaling recepts ground up. true it would not make any difference if there were no ground prong. On the same note, wouldn't it be better if safer recepts were developed? Plugs could clip into receptacles. I just bought myself a bosh skill-saw. It has no cord. the extension cord is held on by clips and it wont come off. |
| fbjourneyman | ur apprentice might be confusing code with a spec. for example, Disney specs on all new installations require recepts be installed as your apprentice has stated. When i was an apprentice, one of the old timers told me that when those ground pronged receps were created, the intention was to have the ground prong up to prevent ppl from getting bit. But no, that is not NEC. But Your Local codes may have it differently |
| stedder | I know this is real late on the subject , but I just started here. I had a prob in a commercial kitch where th micro was plugged in a steel spoon fell across the hot and neutral and took a good chunk outa the spoon (of course it was a service call) I replaced the receptacle Grd up 'cause thats where they hung the spoons. Seemed like a good idear. |