|
| Ek's Home | Forum | Chat | Electrical Links | |
| Subject - too many exceptions? | |
| karlwayne |
Article 210-11 (c)(3) Bathroom branch circuit is to supply only the receptacle. exception: Bathroom branch circuit can supply light and fan in the same bathroom, in accordance with section 210-23(a) Article 210-23(a) exception: Bathroom branch circuit cannot supply light and fan. What's the deal? |
| cs409 | interesting isnt it! 210.23(A) 15- and 20-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 15- or 20-ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply lighting units or other utilization equipment, or a combination of both, and shall comply with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2). Exception: The small appliance branch circuits, laundry branch circuits, and bathroom branch circuits required in a dwelling unit(s) by 210.11(C)(1), (2), and (3) shall supply only the receptacle outlets specified in that section. |
| JimmyDee | quote: This can only be done if the circuit feeds the bath room where the lite and fan is and no other bathrooms. Can't be done if it feeds more than one bathroom. I think this is clear. Jim |
| karlwayne | Ah, the sun is now shinning. Art. 210-23(a) exception doesn't refer to the lite and fan, just any other receptacles. Thanks for shinning the lite. karl |
| cs409 | the sun does shine, but its just another part of the NEC that needs addressing....210.11(C)(3) in the exception says in one bathroom you can...and in 210.23(A) the exceptiong says you cant....thats why i said, interesting isnt it! |
| David Hyatt | Well, reading this section again, I see it will allow 1 20 amp circuit to supply 4 different bathrooms if the outlet or outlets is the only thing on it. That should not be. And reading 210.11 C(3) by itself leads you to believe you cant. The wording is not clear. But when reading further to the exception, then you see you can. Or maybe its just me. Just a thought. |
| cs409 | 210.11(C)(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply the bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets. Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance with 210.23(A). key part of the exception....shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance with 210.23(A) so am reading this to say, u can in a single bathroom but u have to follow 210.23(A)!! now, 210.23(A) reads as follows 210.23(A) 15- and 20-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 15- or 20-ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply lighting units or other utilization equipment, or a combination of both, and shall comply with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2). Exception: The small appliance branch circuits, laundry branch circuits, and bathroom branch circuits required in a dwelling unit(s) by 210.11(C)(1), (2), and (3) shall supply only the receptacle outlets specified in that section. so if 210.11(C)(3) exceptions says you can, But you will follow 210.23(A) in which the exceptions says you cant! so what gives,,,do yall think one sorta blanks out the other? what do you think david? |
| zapped208 | The key word here is outlets. Outlet means any opening, like lighting, receps and so forth. The bath section is quite clear, like recep [outlets]. |
| cs409 | there isnt any argument as to what 210.11(C)(3) says. under the exception you can do, as LONG as you follow 210.23(A).....and 210.23(A) says you can, bla bla bla and then under MR. exception for 210.23(A) says "receptacle outlets only"... i think the key word here is " confusion " |
| lctrc789 | I hate to add to this confusion guys, but after 24 years in the trade and taking 8 code classes about every 3 years and 2 tom henry classes and teaching classesLOL I interpret the code on bathrooms as this: You can have 2, 3, or 4, bathrooms with only 1 20 amp circuit to feed the recpts only, Or you can put 1 20 amp circuit on the entire bathroom, providing the lighting doesn't exceed 50% of the load, in which it more then likely would not. Bottom line is we all interpet it differently and this should be addresssed in the 2005 NEC |
| Pierre Belarge | Having multiple bathrooms on one 20 amp circuit is not a hazard, it may be an inconvenience. If there is an overload on the circuit due to say too many blow dryers, the overcurrent device will open.... Exactly what the requirements of the NEC are all about. If it happens constantly the consumer will either adjust the blow drying or hire someone to install more circuits. It is a permitted installation, but maybe not a good design idea. Pierre |
| cs409 | a lot of cleaning up in any code book,,,,,, to be up front/honest,,,,each local area has probably addressed this issue. just way to many catch 22 issues in the book....... |
| lctrc789 | Personally I would not put more then 2 Bath Recpts. on one 20 amp circuit by design. The point in that post was to interpret the code as it states, and yes it is confusoing and does need attention for sure. I supersede the code in many ways when I am laying out a residential blueprint. The code is a tool for minimum coverage as far as I am concerned. I go a step beyond it always if I can. |
| JimmyDee | quote: It is minimum as far as what the code says about its-self also. quote: |