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| Subject - Bid by Sq. Ft. Pricing Question | |
| rocketman |
When using the Sq. Ft. pricing methodology do you: 1.) Go by heated and cooled space only with non-inhabited space by the drop where applicable? or 2.) Go by Sq. Ft. under beam, i.e. as listed on the build permit? Would appreciate feedback. Roc |
| MONOLITH | I go living space only, but include the garage. If it's unfinished basement, I add in a little for a couple outlets and keyless's only. If finished basement, I price at same sq/ft with the rest of the house. I believe $3/ft is the range you'd like to get. That's what will make a profit. Start going down, so does the number of times a week you can take the wife out to dinner.  Others may do it differently. I'm always open to suggestions. EDIT IN: Also, others will quickly tell you, sq ft pricing is a very inaccurate way to price a job, due to the various differences in interior layouts/device types/quantities. However, I personally feel that Sq ft is a good way to check yourself after you've done an estimate by takeoff. If you estimate a job item by item, then check it with sq ft price, and you come up with $6/sq ft, you know you did something wrong. Also, the GC you are bidding too undoubtedly guages your price by Sq/ft, since that's the way he knows and is easiest for him. He's not going to do a takeoff of the electric items. So itemize first, then double check to see if your in the right sq ft range, in my opinion. |
| rocketman | MONOLITH... Appreciate the response. I've been bidding by the square including the garage just as you stated. Guess, I'm looking for that "magic" method of making more money. In regards to $ 3.00 a square? Man I wish... just bid a job at $ 1.80 and found out I was still .10 cents a square high and it was a 4,400 sq.ft. house to boot... geez. Oops, forgot to mention I did get the job but only because I also do all the low voltage work as well. |
| MONOLITH | What part of the country are you in? $1.70 a square foot sounds really low. |
| rocketman | I'm in North Alabama. Residential construction is booming but it's a dog-eat-dog world in the counties with "trunk slammers" really making it tough for Electrical Contractors but making it sweet for the builders and developers. I have a friend who is a CM for a high volume builder here who's houses average around 2,800 sq. ft. and is using a guy with two helpers that only charges $ 12.00 per drop. I told him he was full of sh*t till he made me eat those words by showing me an invoice that confirmed it. Roc |
| MONOLITH | Move. 
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| Romex Racer | Here in Southern California, I'll sometimes do a plain vanilla house for $1.25 a square. $12 a drop is OK for a hack. Parts are $3, Rough labor would be $6 and trim out at $3. A guy could make $30 an hour, but there's no money left for liability insurance, bond, truck, tools and there's no funds for growing the business. $12 is total hack-ville. |
| rocketman | MONOLITH... Move? It ain't happening. Going "Buford Pusser" now thats a possiblity.  Romex Racer... Your dead-on with your point. I've got plenty of work but it kills me to see these people work for beer and cigarettes. Especially when it keeps me from having wine with my steaks. Roc |
| MONOLITH | Romex Racer, $1.25 even in California? I'm starting to wonder if I'm off. But there's another thread around here where people were saying $2.25 should be the minimum, or pass on the job. I just did a two room addition over a garage for around $7500. (this was with high vaulted ceiling fans, 12 high hats, 3 ceilings, and twice the necessary amount of outlets...wealthy persons house) I did another addition, one breakfast room below, one bedroom above it, $6000. This is in SE Pennsylvania. Can we get some more feedback on average SQ Ft prices around the country please? I know you guys aren't using it to estimate, but I'm sure you can arrive at a number that your estimate would equal per sq ft, on average. Also, when you do give a square foot price, does that Sq ft calc include the price of the service, or is it $X/sq ft plus $x for the service = total cost? Thanks. |
| Romex Racer | When I figure square foot, it includes undercabinet lights and the service, $1.25 is for underground service. Does not include permit. Hey, Mono, what's a high hat? Is that a recessed can? I usualy go between $2.00 and 2.80 for a house with some cans, some phones and TV, maybe a jacuzzi tub... About 6 years ago I was bang'n out tract homes for $1.00 a foot! When you guys figure recessed cans, does it include the trim and lamp, or is that extra? I've been excluding the trim, but may include it just to be more user friendly... |
| MONOLITH | quote: Heh, yeah, sorry. In Florida they call them high hats also. That's okay, when I moved up to PA, I had no idea what an 'old work box' was, in Fla they call them 'cut in boxes'. I still don't like the term, I'm not doing old work, it's a new box, dammit!  quote: Yes, trim and bulb included; but a cheap generic home depot one. Eyeballs, wallwashers, or something shnazzy is extra. |
| Romex Racer | 10-4. I think I'm gonna give my customers a choice of maybe 3 different trims, low end ones... Whoop! Whoop! |
| rocketman | FYI... Spoke with GC on a job that I bid today and found that, according to him, I was $ 4,500.00 to high.  Seems that a competitor did a 5 min walk-thru and threw out a per drop price and a guesstimate at a total price verses my take-off and quote method. Darn underground service alone will require 150 ft of SEU, a meter socket with two 200A breakers and two 200A MLP's. What really get's me is that I'm only throwing manhour cost + 12% O/H and 20% Profit per item. Oh well, atleast I did recieve a check to day from a "slowpay".
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| eleccon | I give them one choice of trims white or black baffle. I average about 3 to 4 a ft. and it includes the service but no permits or trenching. I don't really bid like that but that is my average. I used to work for a guy who still bids really low and he makes it up on the extras ( thats why I'm so busy!) which is a bad way to bid. Don't lower your prices too much or you will work for free on some jobs. |
| MONOLITH | quote: And you're in Cali, right? |
| blackrd | you guys do your own service entrance conductors? I havent heard of that before. Im 30 miles s/w of chicago (thats in illinois), and the local utility or Henkels & McCoy(bluebell, pa) usually does service to0 the residence. Except for a relocate due to swimming pool, etc, Ive never heard of an ec doing the service entrance. |
| MONOLITH | I hadn't heard of that either. In Florida, everything was underground. We just stubbed a conduit down out of the bottom of the meter can into the ground. Power company did the rest. I haven't done an underground yet here in PA, but my Sq Ft price covered the SE cable up the side of the house to a tap point, and thats it. Overhead lateral is for the power company to do, in my opinion, because they usually don't want you messing around their poles anyway. |
| steamarc | ALLEGHENY POWER?? |
| Romex Racer | Here in Los Angeles the public utility handles the underground service conductors. On overhead services, we don't use SE cable, but must stub up through the roof with GRC and THW conductors... |
| steamarc | IS THIS CODE? THAT YOU DO NOT USE SE CABLE? HERE IN PA WE CAN USE SE CABLE. I HAVE NEVER TAKEN OFF A JOB BY THE SQ. TOO RISKY. I MOSTLY TAKE FOR EXAMPLE: 1 OUTLET TIMES APPROX $60 DEPENDING IF IT IS A HOME RUN OR NOT. IF ITS A HOME RUN, DEPENDING ON THE DISTANCE ADJUST ACCORDINGLY. $60 MAY BE A LITTLE HIGH, BUT DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER OF OUTLETS, THE MORE THERE ARE THE CHEAPER IT GETS. I JUST BID A JOB, WITH A TOTAL OF 5,800 SQUARE FOOT, I COME UP WITH A TOTAL OF SOMEWHERE AROUND,$23,000. WITH ALL THE CHANGES THAT WERE MADE BY THE OWNER, THE CHANGES WERE T & M, THE PRICE DOUBLED. WE BEAT OUT ANOTHER CONTRACTOR BY A MERE $1,200 BUCKS. AND I BID THIS PROJECT BY THE OUTLET. |
| MONOLITH | $23,000. Pheeww. $3.97 /sq ft. Not too shabby. |
| nfsus | In north arkansas I am bidding around 1.85 sq + footages on 220 wires. I dont like the sq method. It will include up to 2 fart fans, service meter, service panel, and no cans. 30.00 a can w/flat trim. Includes tv, ph, and any other lv cable within reason. |
| blackrd | I had an ec bid on my own house(sneaky I know), only one because I was going to do it myself and I didnt want to waste three ec's time on jobs they wouldnt get. It was $11500@$4per sq ft. I think thats a good number for new construction, journeymen here are over $32 pr hr. I dont know how you could make it(around here anyways) for less. |
| CTBigman | We used to bid by individual unit pricing, but we lost money on larger homes 3500 sqft & up. So we started T&M tracking the house's we were doing and found out we had to get around $3.50 a sqft (we do not include the garage or unfinished basement in the footage) we bid the custom homes 3500sq+ at $4.50 (to NEC Code+) a sq then add depending on house style, service size/location, ceiling height. On top of the sqft $ we give a separate fixture package price (12 recess, 4-UC lts, 4-closet lts) and then a price per for everything over ths package price. We are a 10 man company in CT, cant keep up with the work and are looking to hire more help!!!. |
| wbradle5 | Here in Michigan, just quoted a finished basement 1500 sgft. Included bath, kitchen w/220 stove, computer rm, wine cellar, living and dining rm, drops for 19 cans, (cust to install and furnish cans. Quoted $700 to rough, and $700 to finish. total $1400. It was turned down because another contractor quoted $1500. including cans and hook ups. Doesn't seem right!!! 
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| BASE | steamarc, Does that include structured wiring? Or is that a custom build with remote switches? Or just a $.69 switch and recepticle? |