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| Subject - arc faults | |
| RSB | Hi, In CT arc faults are new to us. I have heard that you should space them in a panel . I have been told that the generate heat and cause condisation in cold basements??? Any input??? Also a area condo just changed out there panels and put acr faults on most of the ckts. I have had a few call about condensation at panel s in unheated basement units. Would like to get some feed back. Thanks |
| Ryan_J | You have to put them in the panel because 210.12 requires protection of the entire branch circuit. Refer to the definition of "branch circuit." As far as the condensation goes, this is the first I have heard of it. |
| jagerbombme | i've only heard they buzz |
| JimmyDee | That doesn't make sense. Adding heat will cause the condensation to be decreased not increase. We have added strip heaters to exterior junction boxes and controller panels to reduce condensation. Jim |
| kbsparky | AFI breakers have a built-in "power supply" -- that is, they require a constant source of power to monitor the circuit, and properly operate. This will generate a small amount of heat, making the breakers warm to the touch, even if there is no load on the circuit itself. That could be the reason why someone may have mentioned to space them apart, although I have never heard that recommendation from any of the manufacturers. In fact, on most of the projects where I've encountered AFI breakers, they are always grouped together. IF condensation is a problem in the panel, water dripping into the guts of those breakers could cause more problems than a standard breaker would. I'd try to insulate that panel better, to minimize the condensation --- and any resulting problems that might occur due to the presense of water inside of an electrical enclosure. -Ken |
| Electricman | RSB, I have been installing AFCI circuit breakers since Jan of 02. I have always grouped them together, the only thing that I notice is the heat that is generated from them and it is not really that much.I would not even say they get hot, just warm, but other than the manufactures workin the bugs out of them I think they are a very good thing. I have had a few of them go bad already (about 4 I think) but they seem to do their job, I have had a service call where the customer had an old TV set plugged in and every other time you turned it on and off it would trip the AFCI, the TV was old circa late 60,s. As far as condensation thats a new one to me and like Jimmy said it doesnt make any sense. I am an east coast boy myself (Pa.) and damp basements are the common thing here and thats probably where the condensation is coming from. |
| Mike Delaney | I've been installing since the beginning like Electricman, we group them together, I don't even recall them getting warm..but I have heard them buzz...I too think they serve a good purpose...I've had staples to tight on the romex which would cause them to trip before...every once in a while you'll have a problem (in a blue moon)...I'm glad there getting all the bugs worked out. There sure was alot of hype at the begining..like most things I suppose. |
| Ryan_J | They will be getting a lot more sensitive in 2008. |
| stedder | what's the chances of there being AFCI receptacles, would they any better or worse or more or less sensible? Maybe for retro. |
| Ryan_J | They are already being manufactured. They will not satisfy the 2002, but they will satisfy the 2005 if they are located within 6' of the panel and are connected to the panel with a metallic wiring method. See 210.12 of the 2005. |
| Mike Delaney | Ryan, What kind of sensitivity are you expecting in 2008? |
| Ryan_J | The combination type is required in 2008, which trips at 5 amps of fault. The branch/feeder type is used today, whihc doesn't trip until 75 amps of fault. |
| Mike Delaney | I guess whatever it takes to make it safe. We went from knob and tube wiring berried in lime plastered walls, to cloth covered romex, to romex w/ a ground, bx, smoke detectors, gfci's, afci's, its all part of the electrical revolution, might as well do what we can to improve the utilization of electricity...sometimes it hard to break habits, and give into new technology. But I am proud to be an American, were at least I know I'm free... |
| JimmyDee | quote: As long as you obey the rules.  Jim |