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Subject - Finding good help
kiwisholland I am just starting out, but with good planning I expect to grow. My concern is finding good help when that day comes. In another forum, Monolith brought up the Union question, and I was hoping we could discuss it here.

Where I live, the electrical union dominates the market. I am a member of this local, but I do plan on withdrawing shortly. I went union because of the education they offered and to maximize my earning potetnial. I worked for a non-union contractor before joining the union and their top mechanic was making a little less than half of Union rate. I am not Jimmy Hoffa, but I had to maximize my earning potential. John is correct in comparing what a small contractor can make versus working as a journeyman wireman with no headaches. Again, I am not a big "Union Man", and by going into business for myself, I hope to distance myself from some of the "cons" of the union experience.

Anyway, back to the point. Around here, as I said, the Union dominates the market. Not so much the residential market. But most residential contractors around here employ foreign workers. Now, I am not a racist or a xenophope, but if I plan to offer red carpet service, Mrs. Smith is going to expect to be able to communicate with the tech that arrives at her house. Also, most good men around here join the union for the same reasons mentioned above.

How do others here find good men? Can you afford to pay them a salary that is attractive enough to keep them from going into the union? Has anyone here considered hiring union help if needed?

I think some of the "systems" out their, such as Nexstar and ESI address this situation, but I would still appreciate a discussion here.

Thanks in advance for your help!
MONOLITH I live close to Philadelphia. Obviously, and unfortunately for the city, a very union area.

I have built several large projects around here, all with non union labor, and I have found many good electricians.

You'd be surprised what you can find out there. Just give it a try.

IMPORTANT: One thing you must be very cautious of, if you put an add in the paper, there is a risk of union people applying just to get in and cause you problems. but this is usually the concern of larger companies, most of the time a smaller upstart isn't worth the unions time. Most of the large contractors I know around here, and in Baltimore, do not put ads in papers, they rely on word of mouth from existing employees.

Best of Luck.


PS. If anyone would like to start a thread discussing the pros and cons of unions, I would love to have one. I just didn't know if we should start something here that's sure to be a nasty one, so I'll let someone else do it.
kiwisholland Thanks for the response Monolith.

I live in the Lehigh Valley north of Philly. Local 98 uses some nasty tactics I hear, kudos to you for working in that environment.

Do you have help now? If you grow your residential service business, do you have a plan to find red carpet men? Or do you have enough connections from the past to get men?

Also, what kind of margin are you making on contract work? I have some contacts as well in the business, but I feel I might not be able to charge a break even number. I do enjoy construction as well as service/old work and would hate to never do construction again.

Thanks!
nfsus you guys complainin about unions areas. arkansas is a right to work state and the going rate for a master in my area is 16.50 per hour, unless you work for yourself. and then it gets hand to mouth like it is today. on the other hand i dont like unions...
MONOLITH I'm still in the very early stages of my own business. There are others here who have been in business for awhile that I'm sure can answer better.

The thought of trying to find good people is a scary proposition. I am fortunate that I have several guys that used to work with me when I was a foreman for another contractor. The relationship that we built at that time has made them willing to pretty much follow me into anything just to be able to work with me. (I used to give really long lunches ).

I honestly think, at least at this stage, I will do the word of mouth thing with people I know.."Do you know anyone looking for work, or a better job?". I know enough people that I should be able to round up some familiar and tested people. Right now I'm just too new and small to risk taking strangers in from the street. I also just don't want to deal with any of those types of issues right now when I need to concentrate on simply getting the business up, running, and surviving.

As for my margins, right now it's easy to have high margins because I'm so small, with so little overhead, so few expenses, and I charge ESI prices.

MONOLITH nfsus, unfortunately geography has a lot to do with it. Where you live, affects what the going rate in the area puts on your table.

I came from Florida, which is also a right to work state. The rates are higher there though, Journeyman/Foreman in the $22 to $24 range (non union).

If a person who needs to feed his family better joins the union to do so, because where he lives gives him little other option, I am understanding and sympathetic to that individual and need.

It's when my right to have a business, or my family's well being is threatened by violence and corruption like street gangs fighting over a corner, that's when my union issues come out.
MONOLITH KiwisHolland, I did a lot of work around Allentown and Bethlehem, even up into Easton. I suppose a lot of your work is older houses, yes? I didn't see much new housing developments up that way.
kiwisholland Hey Monolith,

I live in the suburbs of Allentown, and we have massive oput of control new home construction. The contractors that wire these homes are the sharks that hire the foreign guys and pay them minimum wage to wire homes.

Easton too, massive new home construction. New Jersey people moving in like crazy. Lower taxes, I-78 to NYC.

I want to concentrate on residential and small commercial service, updating some of the huge old homes around here.
MONOLITH I'm in no way wanting to initiate a racial or ethnic discussion, but I'm just curious what is considered 'foriegn workers' in the Pennsylvania area.

Where I came from in Florida it was mostly Cubans, Hatians or Jamaicans.

What do you consider a 'foriegn worker' up here?
kiwisholland I too am not a racist or a xenophobe. And I respect the courage to go to a foreign country too make a better life for yourself!

Around here most of the guys are from eastern europe or latin america. I do wish THEM the best of luck.
MONOLITH
quote:
Originally posted by kiwisholland

I too am not a racist or a xenophobe.


I hope you didn't think I was insinuating that Kiwis, I truly wasn't.

I was just trying to ask the question carefully, as some people are offended simply by the question itself. I really just didn't know what the ethnic makeup of the labor pool was around here and was curious.
kiwisholland Glad you decided to give it another go Monolith. I did not think you were being racist, by the way.

Hey, anyway what type of estimating software do you use for your contract jobs?

Maybe I could start another thread on that one.

Thanks!
MONOLITH
quote:
Originally posted by kiwisholland

Hey, anyway what type of estimating software do you use


I'm on a budget, so I'm still using one of those old style chinese calculators; you know , the one with the colored beads you slide back and forth on a string?

I use it for all my accounting.

The IRS just loves it.
John A. Peters Let's see, what was the subject here any way? Finding good help? Oh yah!

When I need help, I advertise the newspaper and make the conditions of employment kind of tight, but good. When they call we get their name and phone number and ask them to send in a résumé by fax. Last time I asked for someone with previous experience as a licensed contractor, and we got a good one. Theoretically if he previously was a contractor, then there is a reason he is not licensed now. Maybe he likes it better being an employee. No worries about after hour phone calls, making payroll, collections, paying the bills, non paying clients, and so on.

I choose 3 or 4 good ones and had a breakfast meeting (donuts and coffee) and invited my current electricians too. They filled out applications and got to talk to the current men to see what it is like here. It worked out well. Some of them self eliminated themselves.