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UnionElectrician
Member
USA
11 Posts |
 Posted - 01/19/2008 : 21:23:52
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I have come across this a couple of times, and it might help a few of you who are called to trouble shoot a switch that keeps tripping the breaker.
Some of the cheaper brands of switches have contacts that create a small arc when switched to the 'On' position, thus tripping the breaker. Others have loose tolerances that, with minimal lateral pressure, (pushing sideways on the switch, rather than up or down) make a high-resistance contact, also tripping the breaker. These switches are usually of Taiwanese or Chinese manufacture, and typically sell for less than $1.00
Be aware that your installation of these switches on arc-fault protected circuits will most likely result in your return to the job, on your own dime.
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craig
Forum Aficionado
628 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 09:20:07
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quote:
Originally posted by UnionElectrician
I have come across this a couple of times, and it might help a few of you who are called to trouble shoot a switch that keeps tripping the breaker.
Some of the cheaper brands of switches have contacts that create a small arc when switched to the 'On' position, thus tripping the breaker
I thought that all switches create a "small" arc. |
Not drunk is he who from the floor can lift himself to drink some more. But drunk is he who prostate lies and can neither drink nor rise! |
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Ryan_J
Code Guru Moderator
USA
1854 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 09:41:26
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| Thats interesting, since a branch/feeder AFCI doesn't react to a series arc. Were you using one of the new combination AFCIs? |
Ryan Jackson, Salt Lake City |
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jwhite
Member
USA
2964 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 11:55:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryan_J
Thats interesting, since a branch/feeder AFCI doesn't react to a series arc. Were you using one of the new combination AFCIs?
Yea sure, on the test bench this is true. Out here in the real world I have also had this problem. I choose to take the breaker back and get a new one. On one job I had to take back three in a row, till I got one that worked properly.
IMHO arc fault breakers have not been perfected enough to be mandated. |
I am a nobody; nobody is perfect, and therefore I am perfect.
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Ryan_J
Code Guru Moderator
USA
1854 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 18:48:06
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| I just re-read my post, and I want to clarigy something. When I said "thats interesting", it could easily have been beleived that I was calling him a liar. I most certainly am not. When I say "thats interesting", its because I like hearing about AFCI issues. |
Ryan Jackson, Salt Lake City |
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VoltageHz
Forum Aficionado
USA
807 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 18:57:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryan_J
I just re-read my post, and I want to clarigy something.
Now that's irony!  |
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Ryan_J
Code Guru Moderator
USA
1854 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2008 : 07:58:34
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quote:
Originally posted by VoltageHz
quote:
Originally posted by Ryan_J
I just re-read my post, and I want to clarigy something.
Now that's irony!
LOL! I meant clarify... |
Ryan Jackson, Salt Lake City |
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UnionElectrician
Member
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2008 : 03:41:38
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Hey guys, sorry so long to respond;
I don't remember what brand/type of arc fault breaker it was- I didn't install it myself.
I was called in by a friend who had just moved into a new construction home. After about a month of living there, he was having problems with the breaker for the master bedroom tripping every time (or nearly every time)he turned on the lights. He was understandably concerned that there may have been a flaw in the wiring...
After checking the connections at both the light and the switch, I decided to replace the cheap chinese manufactured switch with a good Leviton one. Problem solved. After that, I went through the rest of the bedrooms and changed out the switches. Figure if the one in the master bedroom was cheap, the rest of them may wear out quickly as well.
I can't say why the arc-fault breaker tripped on a series arc; except that maybe the arc was to ground? Doesn't make sense to me, but sure as ****, I replaced that cheap switch, and no more problems. |
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macmikeman
Forum Magnate
1428 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2008 : 16:45:07
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| You know what is funny, I have always considered Leviton residential grade switches to be cheap Chinese made garbage also. Wonder where the actual factory is. Mehiko?? |
F--- em all but six son, you need six to carry the coffin..... |
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inspector1
Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2008 : 09:56:24
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| Even if the switch is cheap, the signature of the arc, as recorded from the electronics, should not trip the unit. Hopefully this is not going to be a problem. |
Martin Schumacher
mselectricaltraining.com |
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craig
Forum Aficionado
628 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2008 : 12:29:20
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quote:
Originally posted by macmikeman
You know what is funny, I have always considered Leviton residential grade switches to be cheap Chinese made garbage also. Wonder where the actual factory is. Mehiko??
What brand switches do you use? |
Not drunk is he who from the floor can lift himself to drink some more. But drunk is he who prostate lies and can neither drink nor rise! |
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macmikeman
Forum Magnate
1428 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2008 : 06:22:20
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quote:
Originally posted by craig
quote:
Originally posted by macmikeman
You know what is funny, I have always considered Leviton residential grade switches to be cheap Chinese made garbage also. Wonder where the actual factory is. Mehiko??
What brand switches do you use?
Mostly them cheap Mexican/Chinese Leviton 15 amp 38 cents ones.  |
F--- em all but six son, you need six to carry the coffin..... |
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Electricman
Avid Member
USA
374 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2010 : 19:53:03
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| I had this problem with a switch (Pass&Seymor) I replaced it with another switch and all was fine. The few other arc fault problems I have had have been tracked down to something faulty that was plugged into the circuit. We use siemens equipt. I also agree with jwhite on his opinions of said breakers. |
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John A. Peters
Forum Magnate
USA
1852 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2010 : 02:28:07
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I thought that AFCI breakers do protect us from loose wire nuts or other series hot spots.
I made a test bench lash up with an adjustable spark gap in series. Results were undependanle but I was able to trip the AFCI a fiew times.
Seimans offered a suitcase demo but I declined the offer when I found the arc point etc was under glass.
I gave up and took it on faith that they work but I quit promoting AFCIs for now. |
Same Day Service 415-239-5393 SF Electrician SF John A. Peters, San Francisco CA www.BrooklineElectric.com/ |
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Mshea
Avid Member
Canada
150 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2010 : 15:29:34
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| I am glad to hear the breaker works and I am suspicious about the listing of the cheap switches. Maybe you are encountering counterfeit products? Perhaps these switches allow carbon tracking or they don't break or make contact precisely or fast enough. Wrong plastics, wrong contact material, poor make break design etc. |
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bytemylobster
Avid Member
Canada
409 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2010 : 09:10:09
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As far as arc-fault breakers go:
An arc is an arc,
and a fault is a fault.
Series or otherwise, an arc should trip the breaker.
Loose wirenuts will trip the breaker. |
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Topic |
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Cheap switches on ARC fault protected circuits
