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	Subject - Flat Rate for troubleshooting Doug Wells I was wondering if there is a min flat rate charge for troubleshooting lighting and plug circuits for Resi stuff. John A. Peters I would like to know that too. There can be lots of variables. Maybe stare out by quoting a minimum amount of time to start? Like 1.5 hours or 2 hours? Doug Wells Thanks John BTW I just read your reply about the goop at the other site. Guess it is sort of a hit and miss thing to flat rate. :) Mike Delaney The Flat Rate programs I have seen, actually come with an illistrated book with different scenerios. You can show the customer the illistration, and the price is listed next to it. Some have 3 columns, one is the national average cost, your cost, and a prefered customer cost. If you sign a 1 one year service agreement you get 20% off. The items I've seen in these books are expensive, usually nothing under $100.00, even to change out a broken recept. One of the items was, changing out a range cord...$200.00. But you can change the price acording to your overhead and profit..I'm thinking about purchasing one of these programs...the only one I've seen so far is Contractor 2000. John A. Peters You say Illustrated? Do you mean diagrams or pictures? I have not seen any like that. Usually they are a description. I gather that the main advantage to flat rate books is that the technicians can quote the prices, relieving the owner of that job. That way the company can grow larger than it could if one man were to quote all the jobs. If the men are going to do the quotes in the field then they either need a flat rate book or a computer in the field. There are flat rate books on a computer. Has any one tried using a computer on the job site? I guess it might work on small jobs, but on big jobs it is easier to return tooth office and use the computer there, but then you loose the advantage of being able t strike while the iron is hot. The other component is to establish trust and acceptance of your company via uniforms, colorful shiny vans, and a marketing program that emphasizes clean, neat pleasant technicians that are well trained in business as well as electrical work. wilkie We operate on a flat rate system entirely. We charge a $29 travel/dispatch fee which includes thirty minutes of look and see. We do have a flat rate diagnostic fee for half hour and so forth, but it never comes up. I hear this question alot from contractors not using flat rate, trust me, it rarely becomes an issue. As far as the diagrams and artwork to show the customer, you are most likely talking about the NSPG book. You can find them at www.nspgweb.com. Nexstar(formally C2000) pushes their system. Long time j. Peters. How have you been? kiwisholland NSPG offers a Palm Interface which allows you to carry your entire book on your Palm device. NSPG sells it for $500 per year, yes a yearly license. You can get the same software from Service Doctors, www.servicedoctors.com for $350 per year including support. They currently working on trying to offer it for a one time fee. Check them out, I just ordered Numbers Cruncher from them today. Check out the web site and give Marc a call, he's a good guy. John A. Peters I gather $29 travel/dispatch fee which includes thirty minutes of look and see. Then use the flat rate book to quote a price and show the book. Minimum is $100.00, even to change out a broken recept. Now what if they need a new dimmer too. What might be the flat reate for that? Mike Delaney I've talk to an electrician out here that works for a company doing flat rate, he says one laddy was so mad about the over inflated price she threw his business card at him and told him to get the **** out of her house! This over inflated price, allows any "technician" to give a quote on a job. Most of the time if the customer accepts the price, they will waive the $29.00 diagnostic fee, do a 10 point panel inspection (not sure what all ten are... to round up more business), put down the "Jon Doe Electric" door mat, refrigerator magnet, and electrical panel sticker! They also offer a service agreement for about $85.00 per year, to come into your house twice a year and do inspections, change the batteries in the smoke detectors...and by signing you are now a "perferred customer", and get a 20% discount on all work done!....It's actually a great sales plan. wilkie Let me assure you that our prices are not over inflated. Our business runs strictly service on a flat rate system. Our rates are ALOT higher than a majority of our local competition. When I say ALOT, I mean that are ALOT higher. Our prices however, are a direct correlation to the value of services that we provide. The costs and overhead associatted with running this business is exponentially higher than most elec. contractors incur. Needless to say, our competition does not set our prices. Our technicians are not "allowed" to price jobs because the price is so high it allows for mistakes. On the contrary, our prices are set based on our calculated break even point. The tasks are a great guideline for a tech to look up a price, but they tasks are very time specific. If there is a problem with a job that a tech has priced, it costs me the same if not more than it would someone else. My labor costs are through the roof, compared to most contractors. Percentage wise, they are reasonable and within our set limits. Once you calculate lost time, due to a poor estimate, my hourly cost to have that technician there, may indeed cost me almost 5 times what it would cost my lower priced competitors. For example: a friend of mine who owns a local electrical company, called and asked if he could borrow a tech for a week because he was slammed with rough-ins. I said sure. All he would need to do is pay the tech his normal hourly wage(not including WC ins. and all the other benefits I pay for). He couldn't do it. He couldn't see paying my tech more an hour than he made. I feel sorry for him. I've been there. I will probably volunteer my time to him this weekend. That doesn't change the fact that my costs are exponentially higher. We deliver a premium service experience for our customers; all of whom are 100% satisfied or they do not pay.(which never happens) We also sell service agreements. We sell them for $199 per year. We do one annual inspection, 15% discount on all repairs, priority service, no holiday/overtime surcharges, and alot of other benefits. We offer it to each prospect, which gives them the opportunity to take advantage of the savings. If they prefer to pay our regular rate, that is their choice John A. Peters That was a clearly written and educational response. It clears up several misconceptions I (and probably others) had about "high" rates. It looks like all three numbers are higher, income, expenses and profits. I like the fact that profits are higher, but even better you get to work with high quality, smart and well trained personnel who are rewarded well. That way you can hire the best- right? Good. I wonder if your scripts are proprietary? It sounds like a good script would head of the card throwing incident. I wonder if a problem like that is handled (prevented in advance) by the reception script or the on the job script. Of course we all have to filter out a small percent of our customers, and the sooner we find out about the "price shoppers", the better Thanks, I am learning from your notes. JaP New Guy We use a "flat rate system" for our pricing. We charge a flat fee for just getting to the house and seeing what the customer needs. If there is troubleshooting to be done, then our book has a rate in it based on an hours worth of time. Most of the time we find it sooner, if it goes over a little we eat it, if it is a major problem, we charge more. After that we bill them for what needs to be done to repair the problem unless it is minor and we can fix it during the toubleshooting process. ie. loose wire. The rate would be based on the hourly rate you set your pricing guide to. Speedwire1 Wilkie - If you charge a $29.00 travel and diagnosis fee, how do you sell that on the phone. Let's say a customer has 1/2 a circuit out, and it winds up being a loose wire on the neutral of a receptacle. When the customer says, "How much will it cost to have you come to my house and get my circuit working?", do you tell them a per circuit charge for the repair? What would be the charge for that service call? Thank you in advance, and I look forward to your reply. Chris