Electrical Forum - Whirlpool tub

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Subject - Whirlpool tub - 2 questions
BillA	For the connection of a Whirlpool tub, what are the pros and cons of using a GFCI breaker versus GFCI outlet? For a tub with a built-in heater, are either of the methods: Using 2 14-2 15A branches or 1 10-2 30A branch acceptable? Thank you, Bill A.
David Hyatt	Money, A GfCI breaker cost much more, no difference in protection. As long as you can get to the receptacle easily and it is 120volt I would use an outlet. 220volt you would have to use a breaker. If it calls for a 30 amp breaker that is what you should use. There is probably only one hook up anyway.
BillA	quote: Originally posted by david Money, A GfCI breaker cost much more, no difference in protection. As long as you can get to the receptacle easily and it is 120volt I would use an outlet. 220volt you would have to use a breaker. Thank you. The cost is harder to balance. 2 runs of 14-2 and 2 breakers to 2 GFCI outlets. Or one 30A run with a GFCI breaker to one outlet for the 2 loads. quote: If it calls for a 30 amp breaker that is what you should use. There is probably only one hook up anyway. It calls for 2 dedicated 15A lines (one for the pump and one for the heater) or a 30A line to 2 15A outlets. A final consideration is that space in the panel is limited and with a toe-kick heater under the sink, another dedicated branch is required (this is correct, yes?). Thanks again, Bill
Scott Vickrey	Bill, You can't install 15 amp receptacles on circuit protected by a 30 amp breaker. Use the 2 - 15 amp circuits method. How many amps or watts does the heater under the sink use? The heater will probablly need it's own 20 amp circuit.
BillA	quote: Originally posted by Scott Vickrey Bill, You can't install 15 amp receptacles on circuit protected by a 30 amp breaker. Use the 2 - 15 amp circuits method. How many amps or watts does the heater under the sink use? The heater will probablly need it's own 20 amp circuit. Thanks Scott. I'm afraid I wasn't clear. The Whirlpool has a pump _and_ a heater to keep the water warm. A radiator is being replaced with a toe-kick heater under the sink. It has a fan and is probably only an amp or 2. The tub manual mentions either using 2 15A circuits or a 30A branch. I'm thinking the toe kick also needs it's own branch. Can the toe kick be put on a GFCI branch for the outlets and lights in the bathroom? The problem is, my house (built 1950) has 3 bathrooms and basement outlets ALL on the same branch. I would like the remodeled bathroom to be on a new branch, but with the tub and toe kick I'd be looking at a total 4 new branches. Unless I can use the 30A branch for the tub/heater and combine the toe kick with the outlets and lighting in the bathroom. A 30A GFCI branch cannot be used to plug the whirlpool pump and heater into an outlet on it? It's interesing that the tub has standard 120V AC plugs. Thanks for your reply. I've done a good bit of wiring (branches, outlets, lights, fans, etc.) but this project is the first real challenge and I want to do it right. Bill A.
Scott Vickrey	The 30 amp circuit can't directly connect to 15 amp receptacles. If the 30 amp circuit connects to a box that further subdivides the circuit with it's own circuit protection then that's cool. Use a 30 amp GFCI breaker. If all you have to connect electricity to the pump and water heater are 120 volt cords you will have to run 15 amp circuits. You have to have one 20 amp #12 awg copper circuit in the bathroom. The toe kick heater I've seen was 1600 watts. That's over 13 amps. If this is the case it will require its own circuit.
BillA	quote: Originally posted by Scott Vickrey The 30 amp circuit can't directly connect to 15 amp receptacles. If the 30 amp circuit connects to a box that further subdivides the circuit with it's own circuit protection then that's cool. I get it. A 22A short on, say, the pump would trip a 15A breaker but not the 30A run to the outlet. I'd need a 2 (minimum) 15A breaker subpanel to do this. Ok, I'll run 2 15A 14-2's for the tub/heater. Can each one be brought to the top and bottom of an outlet (breaking away the bridge)? quote: You have to have one 20 amp #12 awg copper circuit in the bathroom. The toe kick heater I've seen was 1600 watts. This toe kick heater is on a hot water line from my boiler so the circuit is powering only the fan to blow air across the fins into the room. I believe because this isn't a significant load that it can go on the 20A branch. It wouldn't hurt to have it be covered in the GFCI run from the GFCI outlet. Thanks Scott - I appreciate your time. By the way, my line of work is specializing in microcontroller software and hardware. I read your profile. :)
Scott Vickrey	Sure, you can wire the receptacle that way. That sounds like a cool heater. I've never seen one like that. Go ahead and tye it to the 20 amp circuit. You bet Bill I program PICS in assembly But, I have no current projects. I've been spending all my time at work or here. I just hope I remember how when I need to do it again. I might need your help.
BillA	Ahh, thanks - running 3 wires is easier than 4 anyway. I'll have to use GFCI breakers though and so I hope they come in the 1/2 size format. I'm mega-tight on space. I've done very little with PICs. I do a lot with larger processors but still 8-bitters - Z80, Z180, Rabbit, etc. Feel free to contact me any time.