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| Subject - help with old panel | |
| veganfan |
I went to work on an electrical panel for some family, and noticed that the earth ground and neutral were tied together on one lug. For one bus strip which had both neutral and grounding conductors on it. Now this panel was dated for 1980. This is where I get confused am I suppose to look up the NEC from 1980 to find out if to code in 1980, or just correct it or ignore it? This panel does not even have a place for a grounding conductor? Any advice welcome. Not that I feel it is of great importance. Just like to know proper solution. More for my benefit than anything.
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| veganfan | But do I need to check if it met code in 1980? I mean what if there are some things that are not to 1980 code. would I be required to fix or be liable for it? |
| lctrc789 | veganfan, if this panel was installed then, it may have been code. I know right where you live, is it in county you live in or one of the counties near you? It used to be not unusual to see the ground rod and the neutral wire attached to the same lug. As you know the code says one neutral wire per termination. If you didn't do anything to panel and just was checking this, I suggest you tell them that it isn't code anymore. But for all practical purposes you can't make anyone change old code violations, you can only point them out to them. Cover your rear and make sure you document anything you may have found wrong for future reference. Not to long ago right near us here the old PSI used to make all contractors ground their meter bases and thats all they were concerned with, they didn't care if you grounded services or not. We used to run ground through the meter base via the neutral bar then to ground rod in one loop, that way we had both the service grounded and the neutral at the meter base too. let me know what county if you can just curious. You know I run a small service truck that the boys run, and we have ran in to some real good ones out here LOL |
| JimmyDee | quote: If its got a neutral bar and a hole that will fit the grounding wire size, it has a place for the grounding electrode conductor. Jim |
| veganfan | quote: IT has both the grounding wire and grounded wire crammed in same hole, but no separate place for grounding wire. I guess the question I am trying to ask is like one I did before about inspecting an older home. If I was working on this would I need to look up code for 1980 or would I just assume that it was to code in 1980, and hope I am correct. I mean if an inspector came and it was against code for 1980 would I be held responsible? Am I required to find out if older wiring is up to code for the year it was wired, or can I assume they are and proceed from there? This is all hypothetical I mean it is family and all I did was tighten lugs for them, and I am sure it was up to code back then that is why panel made that way. Just wondered how I would know if something not to code now. Was it ok when wired originally how would I know? Am I required to look up old codes and see if I found something questionable? Just wondering how it works. |
| lctrc789 | veganfan, When I was an inspector for the surronding counties and had people call me with questions like this, this is how I would answer them. The code changes every three years, and you cannot expect people to change thier wiring every three years to keep up, but you can tell them it may have been code in 1980 but it is not now. You can suggest that they have you or someone else to wire or bring things up to code. Is it right NO,!! we all know that, but like I said the PSI utility company here had guys doubling wires up in the older panels so they could could ground thier meter bases. Is it technically grounded YES but not by current code. Many of the older 60 amp fuse boxes had little room for all the grounds and neutrals I have seen many of them with the neutral and grounds crammed to gether, the only thing that you could do is add a ground bar and make sure you have enough room to do this. But in mnay cases with older panels and fuse boxes you do not even have room to add these. So what can you do change the panel which has more room or leave it and make sure you document it and say I am telling you it is not code and is technically unsafe and it should be taken care of. At least they are aware of the fact that they do have some wiring to bring up to code. |
| lctrc789 | Personally Vegan fan I wouldn't worry about what was code in 1980, why? Because you may get different answers form who knows who LOL. They may tell you some local county inspector said it was ok, hard to say, it doesn't sound like it was right, but as I suggested tell them it isn't proper and make sure you cover your butt on this and document what (if any) work you done. Are you liable for what was existing, NO but you must at least have some documentation to make sure you have covered your self in case something should ever happen. I used to see all types of panels when I worked in the city, 60 amp panels that were all messed up, I would write on my estimates or contracts, that we were there giving bid and noticed that the wiring or service is ............ and that we did not do any work on this system. I wouldn'y even add circuits for people who had service problems unless they let me make service right. I would suggest to them that they have an improper wired service that needs attention and that you have done what ever work you done and in no way are liable for what was existing. Always covber you tail in writning and document all service work you do. Just MY OPINION. |