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| Subject - Double wides | |
| lctrc789 |
I have done inspections in a small town out in the suburbs. I found that on double wide homes that they don't use arc fault detectors and they don't use 20 amp bath circuits. I made a mistake and red tagged for non compliance to the articles in the NEC and wow that was a major boo boo on my part. Tell you why, The manufacturer of the double wides called my office and told me they do not fit in the same catgory as a new home. Well by the county guidleines they do here I said. Well to make a long story short these homes are built and monitored by HUD and the federal housing athority. Well they don't have to follow the same guidelines as a normal home. I found this out the hard way and now just pretty much check the smoke detectors and the service installation, grounding and pretty much what is inside is their own LOL Just some local info for those of you who may inspect in rural areas |
| cs409 | am surprised yall look at any thing past the main service disconnect at the pole? as you found out the fun way, others with auth have a much larger pen!! LOL....... welcome to the forum... |
| lctrc789 | Yea I found out the hard way about the larger pen, LOL I have had them come out and change smoke detector placements and that is a hard enough job to get done. I had to remind 2 companies that the NEC states that city/ county regulations supersede the code book. Boy that got pens rolling. LOL |
| cs409 | a lot of people forget that the NEC is not a book of federal/state laws.....it isnt anywhere near that.......what it is,,,a book of dos and donts,,,and a good one at that.....a book that most areas use as there guide lines for Electrical work. hope i stated that clear and simple! best to yall |
| kbsparky | It should be noted, that the HUD certification plate must be fastened on the exterior of the "Double-wide" (or single-wide for that matter) for their rules to supercede the local codes and ordinances. In the absense of that label, then complete inspections and enforcements by the local inspectors should be performed. |
| lctrc789 | I am glad you responded that way about the HUD plates several of the newer homes any more form the outside look like regular homes with vinyl siding and on foundations.LOL I found out the hard way on them and I just didn't know but they are certainly not wired by the NEC on many standard guidelines for a regular home. |
| Pierre Belarge | Pat I just inspected a modular (HUD regulated) house yesterday. We inspect any additional work, the service and basements. I did look at the work in the rest of the house, and it seemed up to NEC code. Pierre |
| lctrc789 | Pierre, The home I was referring to was built in May 2003 and was finished on the foundation July 2003. The outside disconnect and grounds were wired by code, and the Wire size was proper, this was done by local electrician. I did find they had NO arc faults present in any bedroom, as well as the bathroom GFCi s were on a 15 amp seperate circuit NOT A 20. For the most part the smoke detectors were right one in each bedroom , family room and met the code. The part I gave them no compliance for was 20 amp bath circuit and no arc fault detectors. This is where my problems started but was soon corrected by HUD and the federal housing folks. |
| iwire | quote: cs I can not agree with that, in this state (MA) and any others I know of the NEC must be adopted as law for it to be enforceable. IMO the key here is that a State law can not circumvent or overide a Federal law. Look at the battle with CA and medical marijuana. |
| lctrc789 | Actually the NEC can be superseded by Local jurisdiction, or utilities. Article 90-4: The code is intended to be suitable for mandatory application by government that excersise legal jurisdiction over electrical installations and for use by insurance inspectors. The authority having jurisdiction for enforcement of the code will have the responsibility for making the interperations of the rules, for all decisions basically. The authority having jurisdiction may waive specific requirements in this code. |
| iwire | Pat yes I agree but those changes must also be adopted as law to be enforceable. Here in MA we use the NEC with about 60 or 70 amendments. |
| lctrc789 | Yea i agree I have been down the road many times with arguments over the NEC and local jurisdiction. We have one local utility comapny that does not allow a water ground what so ever and have problems with getting proper grounds at a resistance of less then 25 ohms a few times. But they are the local water company as well and had a man severly hurt many years ago on a ground at water meter. But never the less it is there decision, and i do not argue with them. Where I am at we have three power comapnies with all different type of codes regarding their hook ups and grounding. As well as one county the ispectors are the local power company, and many of them interpret the code differently. I learn to just do as they say and document all my actions or proceedings with them for future use. |
| kbsparky | >>...But they are the local water company as well and had a man severly hurt many years ago on a ground at water meter...<< And they think that prohibiting grounding of water pipes will prevent that kind of injury? Tsk, tsk .... |
| Mike Delaney | I've hooked up a dozen services or so on modulars, and double wides. There wiring methods are very different. They build the floor decking first, turn the whole thing uspide down, and wire it from the bottom. They run a 1X6 down the middle of the basement ceiling and staple all the HR's, PH's and stuff to it, looks like dung. There usually are no electrical boxes in the wall, you simply stab the romex into the device, and the devices is like a cut-in box. I gues what do you expect when the company can build 4 modulars a day from start to finish? |
| kbsparky | I hate those non-box devices. Ever have to rewire one when they were connected wrong from the factory? We had one instance where the complaint was outside light at the back door could not be turned off, and the bedroom light could not be turned on. Seems that the switch at the back door was reverse wired, so by turing that switch off, they disconnected the rest of the circuit, which fed downstream to the bedroom, instead of the light. By fixing the connections in that switch, we killed 2 stones with one bird  I usually end up cutting the offending devices out, and replaced them using a real junction box with a real device. -Ken |
| stedder | The fact that modular companies get away with whatt they do is unconscionable. These are the reasons that they can be built so cheaply like the old saying "ya git what ya pay fer." IMO it's very unfair to ALL trades involved and in the long run, the end customer as well. If the reins are not pulled in on these modular companies things will only get worse. I hate 'em, always hated 'em. Sorry guys (and girls) |
| lctrc789 | Being a small town inspector (not just electrical) I will tell you what I have found. At least in Modular homes. The duct system in mnay are very thin and never sealed right air flow problem is a major thing in these. I have seen them flow more air out in crawl then in house. Electrical is not according to NEC But again they are not built that way. Plumbing is in fact rolled PVC pipe and crimped It does have its problems. For the most part they are OK for what people pay for them but many homeowners have to re do their duct work and in some cases have re done plumbing problems. The eletrical problems they have is quite inadequate as well as they are all back stabbed and lose voltage in many cases due to that. With a little TLC you can repair these problems. |