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Subject - Service Entrance
David Hyatt I am beginning not to like inspectors very well. Present company excluded of course. This is the first job I have legally done in the city. He slammed me. The quality of work was a little sub-standard but safe. The homeowner did all the wire pulling and box cutting in himself. Thats where the problem lies. Anyway back to the topic, I built a outside 100 amp service. One thing I almost never do, usually 200 amp. Anyway I didn't have 12 foot clearance so I went through the roof with a piece of rigid. Normally I would use 2" but this being 100 amp I went with 1 1/2. He made me change it plus may other things. Is this a code violation? He treated this upgrade like a new house. I am finally legal to do work in the city and it wouldn't hurt my feelings none if I never do another.
KSsparky The 2" requirement most likely originates with your local utility. Possibly with the city itself. It's not a code issue if it was large enough for the conductors you installed.
David Hyatt Yea, thats what I thought. I called the utility company and they did not regulate it. His excuse was it was a code issue because it is a means of support from the line from the pole. A truck could hit that 3 1/2 foot of pipe coming out of the roof and couldn't bend it.
Trouble Shooter Hi David glad to hear your picking up work. As far as I can remember
2" ridgid was always used for any services even the old 60 amp. There
was an off set hub that was used because the KO on the meter socket
I think was 1-1/2" but the the threded part was 2". The new sockets
will have a 2" hub that bolts on. If you don't have an inspector that
you use find one that will talk to you about the job before you start
most of them will give you imformation what they want. Then stay with
that inspector for the most part and he will get to know your work.
Remember be picky it pays off. Happy Trails.
JimmyDee After reading your post, I decided to check out the NEC and was surprised to see that there was no minimum size for the mast.
quote:
230.28 Service Masts as Supports.
Where a service mast is used for the support of service-drop conductors, it shall be of adequate strength or be supported by braces or guys to withstand safely the strain imposed by the service drop. Where raceway-type service masts are used, all raceway fittings shall be identified for use with service masts. Only power service-drop conductors shall be permitted to be attached to a service mast.

I have seen several 1 1/2" masts but always wondered if they had passed inspection. Looks like maybe you have a local code that hammered you.
quote:
He treated this upgrade like a new house.

Yep, once you start, you open a can of worms.
Jim
David Hyatt I just got off the phone with the city inspector, for some reason I am intimidated by him. He told me he would meet me after 9:00, when is that? 10:00, 11:00? I can talk to the county inspectors like old friends. It is a mind game with the city. I may just have to put him in his place to get some respect. LOL and I will never pass an inspection again. This makes me not want to get inspections in the city.
David Hyatt I never fail inspections, I think it may be a little pride. And I know "pride goeth before destruction".
JimmyDee You need to calm down and ask the inspector for the additional rules/code for the city. You will get nowhere by getting into his face even if he needs it.
Jim
David Hyatt Jim, The problem was the homeowner. After removing the outlets and switches he installed I seen hot and white on same side of receptacle. In switches hot and white was on the switch so when you turn the switch on dead short. Rework boxes were not big enough, not flush with wall, had nails shot through the side with a nail gun. All old wire was remove and new wire pulled, I think thats why he treated it like a new construction. Bath circuit had #12 feeding the GFI and #14 leaving to the lights. I tried to just put them on 15 amp breaker and he said it had to be 20 amp per code. I said this is an old house. He wouldn't give an inch. I had a day and a half repairing the owners screw ups. After I fixed the mis-wired outlets, he made me pull all outlets out so he could see box. He is going to do a rough in inspection tomorrow and after the power is on he is going to do a final. I am going to have 7 days in a 3 day job. Oh well live and learn.
cs409 1 1/2 and up in southeast texas....any old 1 1/4 with meter missing, or needing inspected will require update...

ask mr. inspector for a do and dont do list...remember he cant fail you on any issue without proper paper work on file to back him up. he also has to show it to you also!..he doesnt set code/rules etc...just inforces them for AHJ!(he may set on com. to set code/rules)! if after this he/she still treats you like dirt...go see the city manager or get an apointment....visit and discuss your concerns...invite a 2nd visit with inspector present.....get it fixed......one thing the inspector doesnt want to do....treat you any different from the others he inspects!! if so he could be fired, gone, set point....remember, he works for the city, you dont, he can be fired, you cant...the last thing the city manager wants is unhappy people that buy permits, and bring the city money into the coffers!

one thing and you may be more to blame than the inspector....you should have gone down(u may have)and pulled the permit(not sure of your area,,there are seperate permits for plumbing, ac/heating/ and electrical, besides general permit in my area)....2nd. you should have really looked over this guys work and made sure it was clean and code...after all, your 1st inspection in this city! so the inspector comes in and sees this so and so and wears out a red pen LOL....but he is suppose to be professional and representing city! so beside all that,,,,,good luck....

back to the 1 1/2 over 2...it probably is a city issue...next time u will know! also...talk to some other electricians and get their view on this inspector.....above all,,,,keep cooooooooooool.
David Hyatt He's at it again! Turned down again today. Plastic Carlon boxes, he said the plastic clips were not against the wire tight enough. Had to replace 12 boxes. A few had the clip removed so I can see his point, but not tight enough, come on. Some plastic boxes don't even have a clip, just a hole. He definitely has it in for me.
cs409 get a meeting with the city manager,,,,,,,,,,do it now. also, keep your cool....next inspect, try and have someone video the process without his knowing, at least have a recorder going if possible....also try to find some other jobs he is inspecting, and go and see if hes failing them for same items! but keep your cool....
iwire You can say no if you want.

Here is the code section that requires cable clamps.

quote:
314.17(C) Nonmetallic Boxes and Conduit Bodies. Nonmetallic boxes and conduit bodies shall be suitable for the lowest temperature-rated conductor entering the box. Where nonmetallic boxes and conduit bodies are used with open wiring or concealed knob-and-tube wiring, the conductors shall enter the box through individual holes. Where flexible tubing is used to enclose the conductors, the tubing shall extend from the last insulating support to not less than 6 mm (1/4 in.) inside the box and beyond any cable clamp. Where nonmetallic-sheathed cable or multiconductor Type UF cable is used, the sheath shall extend not less than 6 mm (1/4 in.) inside the box and beyond any cable clamp. In all instances, all permitted wiring methods shall be secured to the boxes.


Seems clear enough, but.....

The exception.

quote:
314.17(C)Exception: Where nonmetallic-sheathed cable or multiconductor Type UF cable is used with single gang boxes not larger than a nominal size 57 mm × 100 mm (2 1/4 in. × 4 in.) mounted in walls or ceilings, and where the cable is fastened within 200 mm (8 in.) of the box measured along the sheath and where the sheath extends through a cable knockout not less than 6 mm ( 1/4 in.), securing the cable to the box shall not be required. Multiple cable entries shall be permitted in a single cable knockout opening.


So as long as you have a staple within 8" of the box you do not need anything more than a hole in a plastic box.
David Hyatt Thanks Bob, but the wire was fished in the walls, so no staples. I guess he has me. I replaced the worst of the boxes, so maybe he will be in a good mood tommorrow. I pushed the plastic KO's against the wire in the box hopefully that will satify him. No more Carlon boxes for me, they are really a pain.
Maybe someone will post in the neat tricks forum (how to kill your electrical inspector). Just kidding. Maybe I will take up plumbing?
iwire Oh, I did not realize these where fished.



Bob
cs409 50cents this inspector has you for lunch tomorrow.....
David Hyatt Is that takes me to lunch, or has me for lunch. I have to meet him at 9:00 we'll see.
cs409 has u for lunch......... this could be the day where you get the message! see boy, am high sheriff,,,this is how it will be! keep your cool, hopefully u 2 can get on the same page... if not, then talk to his boss,,,,and or the city manager....best of luck.. dont know about your area but the inspectors around here usually wear a badge! sorta gives them some extra protection in the level of assult it would be! but do let it be known,,,,u will not tuck your tail and run/hide, that your will pursue this for a fix! but keep a smile and stay cool...
JimmyDee One thing I have found when dealing with inspectors that helps,is to know the infractions he is accusing you of and the code references dealing with those infractions. Sometimes I've found myself telling the inspector that it has been a good learning experience for me and thanked him for the instruction. Other times it has been the other way around.
Had a go around once with a mechanical inspector that remove my bonding jumper to the gas line. After a brief 5 min teaching session, he asked me if I would replace the jumper and clamp and he said, "I've removed about 12 of these and I have to remember where those were so I can reinstall." He didn't understand the difference between bonding and grounding electrode.
Of course I reminded him that he should be a licensed electrician to do that type of work. We laughed. The moral of this story is, inspectors are human and sometime make mistakes. Sometimes not. Days tend to be long at times, so it is better to try to get along with one another and learn from it.
Sometimes what we learn is that people can be jerks but most of the time not. People are just trying to get through the day just like you are.
Jim
David Hyatt Yea, he passed rough-in today. I really think it was one of two things. Either he just had it in for me, trying to send a message to the homeowner at my expense, or this being my first city inspection (in my name) he was showing me what he expected on all his jobs. Most of his complaints were legit. He left me a note to staple more in crawl, the wires were kind of in a tangle because of the homeowner so I did the best I could. Lockout for the water heater which I already knew I had to do and put a flex sleeve on exposed romex. That last one I don't know what he means. The only exposed romex is the dishwasher that has not been installed yet. I will find out Mon.