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| Subject - Placement of GFI outlet | |
| rmansfield |
We moved into an older home with regular duplex outlets in the bathrooms. I needed to replace the duplex outlet with a GFI outlet for safety. My wife bought expensive ceramic covers that she wanted to keep in the bathroom. Instead of replacing the outlet in the bathroom I traced the circuit and replaced an outlet "upsteam" of the bathrooms with a GFI outlet. Since the wire passses through the GFI outlet all outlets downstream are protected. |
| KSsparky | You've met the code requirement of GFCI protection in 210.8(A)1. But how about 210.11(C)3 ? I would think your circuit would be grandfathered in, so it's probably not a problem. You most likely wouldn't get away with it on a new house, though. |
| rmansfield | Can you post 210.11?quote: |
| JimmyDee | 210.11(C)3 In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply the bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets. Jim |
| Scott Vickrey | Since you went beyond what was required of you, I would think you will be OK. Does anyone know why 210.11(C)3 exists? |
| JimmyDee | quote:Hair dryers. Jim |
| SteveMc | quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Since you went beyond what was required of you, I would think you will be OK. Does anyone know why 210.11(C)3 exists? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Women! |
| renosteinke | I can't speak entirely from personal knowledge, but here is how I believe 210.11(C)3 came about: The GFCI requirement for bathrooms is a direct result of the original marketing of the GFCI. Long before the GFCI was even commercially manufactured, the inventor went around, trying to overcome some of the incredible resistance that his device was meeting. One of his demonstrations was to actually place his eight-year old daughter in a bathtub, and drop a corded radio in! So, when first introduced, GFCI protection was called for in bathrooms- and expanded from there. As to placement of the GFCI: It quickly became routine to try to wire all the GFCI's on one circuit; then the house only needed one. As you might imagine, as the requirements for GFCI protection grew, that circuit became somewhat involved, hopping all over the house. When the dang thing tripped, you often had no idea where the GFCI (or the problem) was located. While there is some appeal to the idea of local protection, there is still a desire to use a 60 cent receptacle, rather than a $12 receptacle, or a $35 breaker! Then along came hair dryers, curling irons, etc. These appliances quite often use between 1200 and 1800 watts. That means that the circuit is pretty fully loaded from that one appliance alone! So, the bathroom became a dedicated circuit. Trade practice is far from settled. I still see multiple bathrooms on the same GFCI. I also see the same circuit controllong both the power and the lights in bathrooms. I would not be surprised were I to find outdoor receptacles tied into the bath circuit. As a general observation, the code seems to be drifting in the direction of requiring more area-specific circuits. Where in the past the practice was to have one circuit for "lights," and another for "receptacles," or to have all receptacles on both sides of a wall feed from the same circuit, I think we will begin to see circuits planned according to individual rooms. This will mean many more circuits (with less load per circuit), and lead to multiple sub-panels. Not a bad idea, IMHO, but I question the wisdom of trying to legislate on that basis. |
| trekkie76 | you can have the lights on with the receps in the bath room . 210-11(c)3Ex. |
| dregsclamber | quote: 210.11(C)3 In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply the bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets. We have to protect lights in the shower or over a tub with the gfi |
| Ryan_J | Dregs: He is refering to the exception.quote: |
| Pierre Belarge | There is no requirement in the NEC to protect light fixtures installed over the tub with GFCI protection. If the manufacturer's installation instructions require it, then yes it will have to have it. The first time we see the requirement for any GFCI protection in the history of the NEC, is in 1962, and it is for pools, the then 'new' Art 680. I am not too sure when the requirement started indoors, I will have to look back at my old books. Pierre |
| JimmyDee | quote: I built my first house in 1970 and there was no requirement for a GFCI at that time. In the 60s we were using GFCIs, which we called GFIs at that time, for swimming pools but I don't remember having anything but breakers available during that time. They were $45 or $50 if I remember correctly. Jim |
| JerryB52 | As far as the exception for that code article goes, On some houses I'll have one 20A breaker feeding just that bathroom, (lights, GFCI, F-fan, etc.) Nothing is being fed from the load side of the GFI. As long as that circuit doesn't have any loads outside of that bathroom it's to code. I pointed out this exception to the inspector one day when asked. 
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| lctrc789 | You can have the entire bathroom on 1 20 amp circuit yes. It is code. Or you can have one outlet on a 20 amp GFCI circuit as well. Or you can have two bathrooms lights, wired however, but the GFCIs must be at least one 20 amp GFCI circuit by them selves. As far as GFCI yea the 1960 s is about right for pools. I am not 100 % sure on this but 1975 0r 1978 they started with the outside recpts for GFCIs Yea the old ladies hairdryer, curling iron, and God knows what else they need that requires 1500 or 1800 watts. That is a good reason for the seperate circuit. I have said this many times I always supersede the code on circuits. I try to run as much as I can on seperate circuits especially the kitchen, with many of todays appliances the electric skillets, grills, coffee makers etc, all using 1200 or more watts. I try to talk customers in putting their fridge and frezzers on seperate circuits just for conveinence. The NEC is at best a bare minimum coverage. |
| andy | darn pat i wish i would have thought of that multi circuits in the kitchen with all the crap my wife has in there. just redid the kitchen with new sheetrock and back slashes wish i had thought of putting it on more than the 2 different circuts that i did. im lucky that i can even get a light to come on in that kitchen with all the crap she has plugged in. lol what a nightmare |