|
| Ek's Home | Forum | Chat | Electrical Links | |
| Subject - Residential violations | |
| Ryan_J |
The three most common violations I see are: 1) box fill...I write up a box on every single house :( 314.16 2) Screws inside of a box being used to support it. 314/23(B)(1) 3) No receptacles within 25' of an A/C on the exterior. 210.63 What do you guys see getting written up? |
| Scott Vickrey | The inspector in my town likes to tag for the GEC not being in conduit. |
| cs409 | Ryan, would you clear up your red tag for this code 2) Screws inside of a box being used to support it. 314/23(B)(1) |
| JimmyDee | Service feeders that go underground to the panel not being installed in sch 80 PVC where exposed above ground. (not sure this is an actual violation where not in danger of damage) Double ground rods also. Jim |
| JimmyDee | quote: Wow! This one is a new one for me. quote: No more screwing the box to the surface without an exterior bracket??? Sure looks like it. I think this one is dumb. Sure would like to know the rational for it. Jim |
| David Hyatt | Thats what I was thinking too Jim. I have recently read that article a few months ago. But in certain circumstances especially residential upgrades I have violated this code. I really don't think it hurts anything. I have been called on this in the city. Also on condensing units I have never been concerned with a receptacle within 25' never really thought about it. If Ryan is my inspector I better. Ground wire within 5' of point of entry is one common violation here. One thing I don't get is when I do a service upgrade and install a meter/main combo panel outside, the county inspector looks at it and never goes inside. If he likes what he sees outside it passes. This is good for me, but I work so hard improving the inside wiring sometimes I wish they would at least look. |
| cal_sparky | Hey guys, The way I read it, if the nails or screws pass THROUGH the box, they have to be w/in 1/4" of the back. This makes sense, as having fasteners pass through the box elsewhere would reduce the volume of the box. When I use screws to fasten a box to a stud in old work, I drive them through only one wall of the box, the wall nearest the stud. The screws do not pass through the box; therefore, I see no violation of Code. FYI, the primary Webster's dictionary definition of "through" is "in one side and out the other". Ryan, what do you think of this logic? Also, FYI, when I'm installing boxes against a stud in old work, I usually use a cordless drill to run a right angle screwdriver attachment (Milwaulkee makes one, it's about $30), so that the screw head sits flat against the box wall. I also use square drive washer head screws so that there's a lot a bearing surface. Both available from McFeely's (1" washer head screw part # 0810-SRZ). this approach makes for a solid job. And then after I've attached the wires, I'll run a couple of wraps of 33+ around the device to cover the terminal screws, just to make sure that there's no contact between them and the box mounting screws. (Andy Rooney impression); "Am I the only one that cares about workmanship any more? I mean, just look at your average switch or receptacle installation these days...the installer uses those crummy poke-in backwire connections, if you can call them connections. They're more like an accident waiting to happen. "And if that's not bad enough, he leaves the terminal screws backed out, even though he doesn't use them. I mean, it doesn't make much difference in a plastic box, I suppose, but in a steel box--watch out when you're taking the outlet out. I can't tell you how many times I've shorted the screw out to the box just pulling the darned outlet out to have a look at it... "The manufacturers think thet're doing us a big favor by leaving the screws staked out. They're not. I just wish more people did things right and used those screws to terminate the wires, like electricians used to." Think this would go over big at Electric West next year, or at the NECA show? Cliff |
| cs409 | A revision has been made to 314.23(B)(1) to clarify that nails and screws (drywall) are permitted to be used as a means of support for enclosures . Nails and screws are used as a fastening means for brackets on the outside of the enclosure or where they pass through the interior of the backs or ends of the enclosure. on the illustration it even shows where u can screw/nail thu the back onto a board! and i read nothing that says you cant use a screw inside or anything to prohibit it.....it does make it clear as to where nail/screw or to be located when they PASS thur the box..,,, soooooo,,,,Ryan or any other inspectors, please jump in.....is this a code change that didnt do anything but create confusion! |
| cs409 | p.s. as cal stated,,,,, i use drywall screws inside to make sure the box is snug,,,i have actually done this while the city inspector was holding extra screws for me! as for cals other statements,,,,i come from the old school,,,when working in metal boxes, i tape around the device to cover the terminals just in case they come in contact with box...just an old practice taught by an old electrican ... |
| Ryan_J | quote: This gives you two ways to mount a box if you are using nails or screws. Option 1) Use brackets outside of the box. Option 2) Have your nails or screws pass through the box, and make sure that they are within the back 1/4" Installing a box with internal screws is not one of the two options listed in this section. :) Perhaps tonight I'll upload a picture of a nice example, if I have the time to. |
| Electricmanscott | The new "Smart box" eleiminates the screws in the box. I'll se if I can find a link. |
| SteveMc | I'm not sure I understand this Article as you interpret it Ryan. How else would you attach a 4" square box to a bar hanger if the screw head is not inside the box? I know that is technically not a screw, but a bolt, but isn't that the same thing. I suppose I've been violating the code for quite a while. I've even drilled through the back of a weatherproof box and screwed through it to mount to a post and never had one fail inspection. Those little ears they provide won't last two weeks on a temporary power pole. |
| Ryan_J | Steve: If you are drilling the back of the box, your screws would be located in the back 1/4" of the box. Picture a 4 sqaure bok in your mind. If you mounted it using the holes in the back, you would be fine. If you mounted it using the holes in the sides you would not be fine. |
| JimmyDee | quote: The article says where it passes through the interior of the box, not the back of the box. I like the clarification that cs409 has. This makes sense. If you take the article literally, you couldn't attach with screws through the back of the box. Jim |
| JimmyDee | quote: Where can we get the source of this change and is it official through the NEC? Jim |
| Ryan_J | I'll try to scrounge up the 2002 ROP/ROC tommorrow at work where I have a faster internet connection. |
| cal_sparky | O.K., from Ryan's post: "(B)Nails and Screws. Nails and screws, where used as a fastening means, shall be attached by using brackets on the outside of the enclosure, or they shall pass through the interior within 6mm (1/4") of the back or ends of the enclosure." My contention is that if I run a screw or screws through one wall of the box, that they do not pass through (in one side and out the other, per Webster's dictionary) the interior of the box. Therefore, because they do not pass through the interior, they are not required to be within 1/4" of the back or end of the box. In other words, I believe that the language can be clarified to read: "If the nails or screws used to mount or secure the box pass through the interior of the box, they shall do so within 1/4" of the back of the box". From the standpoint of practicality and reason, why would the requirement limit the use of mounting nails and screws to only those that pass through the box? I don't think it would be loss of box volume--two screw heads are an insignificant volume. Nails or screws passing through the boz occupy more space than a couple of screw heads up against one wall of the box. And I don't think it would be increased risk of a short from the screw heads. A metal box (especially with internal metallic cable clamps) presents much more conductive, grounded surface inside the box. As I mentioned before, a lot of devices are installed with the side terminal screws backed out fully. This represents a bigger chance of shorting to a metal box than a couple of screw heads resting against the interior of the box wall. Has anyone ever had an installation fail inspection because the terminal screws were backed out? Cliff |
| cs409 | as long as you keep the ones on the inside on the back, or on the ends! all is cool....as i stated,,,not problem with inspectors in our area,,,,,i hate to say this, but i think it could be a nit picking issue! nothing personal Ryan... |
| Ryan_J | I don't take anything personally...fire away. I have a few nice pic's of this that I will try to upload tonight where the screws are about 1/16" from the terminal screws of the receptacle. I truly believe this is the intent. I'm certainly not above being argued with, so keep stating your opinion...perhaps your right and I'll learn something. |
| cs409 | maybe it was personal LOL.... i can see some reason for the issue,,,,,1/16 from the terminal sound like sloppy work/install poor...just crap work....to be 1/16 from terminal screw, would sound to me as thou the screw wasnt screwed allllll the way in? what brand of beer Ryan? |
| SteveMc | Whew, thanks Ryan for the clarification. Thought I had been doing it wrong all these years. I must admit however that I have on a few occasions ran a couple of drywall screws through the side of a plastic box when I had to change a single gang to a double gang and couldn't get a cut in box to fit the existing hole. PS I always put the wires under the screws and tape the device. |
| David Hyatt | So to make a long story short it is illegal to use dry wall screws in the side of a plastic box, unless it is 1/4" from the back? I will screw the screws near the top side and bottom side so not to interfere with the terminal screws. |
| Dave Nix | Hi Guys, Here is a hand-out I give to the sparkies that do residential installs. quote: |
| rmansfield | Woops! I misread that response. You must have a recepticle within 25-feet of the A/C condenser. I was just about to add exterior outlets and will have to check the distances.quote: |
| cs409 | hey Dave, any other hand outs u issue? if so would you post them,,,,also Ryan? do you hand out do and donts? |
| Dave Nix | Sure! We DO NOT hand out ANYTHING except code. We take great strides to have it known that we enforce code and not "This is what I want to see". It makes life so very simple! 2002 National Electrical Code - (CODE REQUIREMENTS FREQUENTLY OVERLOOKED) quote: |
| Dave Nix | We also hand out this below. Depending on the immediacy of life safety concerns, we will red tag a job and insist the violations be corrected before the equipment can be used. 2002 National Electrical Code - (CODE REQUIREMENTS FREQUENTLY OVERLOOKED) quote: |
| Ryan_J | I don't hand out anything. Many of the electricians in my area, however, have attended classes/lectures given by me, and that really helps. I have a presentation on "common residential violations" that really helps the resi guys out. |
| cs409 | http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/products?pnlid=3&famid=39&catid=62&id=sw-acdcgfi&lang=en_US Go check this out Ryan... |
| JimmyDee | Sure looks like it will satisfy all the needs and requirements. Jim |
| BURR | FOR THOSE CONCERNED WITH THE CODE REQUIREMENT OF A SERVICE RECEPTACLE W/IN 25 FEET OF A/C EQUIPMENT, G.E. MANUFACTURES A CONVENIANT EXTERIOR DISCONNECT (60 AMP RATED) WITH INTEGRATED GFCI SERVICE RECEPTACLE. |
| Ryan_J | quote: Does it satisfy 406.8 for wet locations? |
| cs409 | looks like a neat unit........have any of yall seen/used any? |
| JimmyDee | I haven't but the next AC I hook up will have one if they are priced right. Jim |
| Ryan_J | I have seen one similiar, but it didn't satisfy 406.8 for an "in use" type cover. It looks like this one would though. :) |
| BURR | G.E. states that their disconnect / GFCI receptacle combination satisfies NEC 210.63 and 406.8 (B)(1). It is a NEMA 3r unit with an "in use cover". (Bubble cover) Pricing in the North East (Ct.) is $25. |
| cs409 | if you figure the cost seperate for a disconnect, the cost of a GFCI and the cost of an IN USE cover, this comes out to a good savings |
| Pierre Belarge | Not to belabor this issue of supporting a box with the screws from the inside, but what is the listing for the plastic box being supported from the inside with sheetrock screws? I do not see that the box is designed for that type of installation, that is why the new 'smart box' is now available, and I think a great idea to boot. Think about Ryan's post - any screw that protrudes from the side of the box has a very good chance of making contact with the screw terminal from the device - never a good idea. More violations I see everyday: 1. box fill 2. cables supported too close to edge of studs 3. ground rods too close to each other 4. non-listed connections to grounding electrodes 5. fire caulking - really the number one violation I come across every day 6. too many grounded conductors installed under one terminal 7. 90*C fixtures installed to the older existing wiring ( a tough situation to be in for contractors) 8. supporting class 2 cables to all the wrong places 9. bundling of NM cable 10. supporting of cables from other cables (one cable stapled to a beam in the basement - then many more cables tywrapped to that one cable) 11. improper grounding of panels after the service (subpanels)There is no mention of subpanels in the NEC 12. the wrong appliances installed to the small appliance branch circuits 13. When refridgeration is not installed with the small appliance branch circuits, it is required to be on an 'individual' branch circuit - 210.52(B)(1)exception No 2 I will stop there for now  Pierre |
| Ryan_J | Its good to see you here, Pierre. For those of you who don't know Mr. Belarge, if you own a copy of the McGraw-Hill's handobbok, take a look at the editing credits and you may just find him there :) |
| JimmyDee | We welcome you Mr. Pierre Belarge to our forum. It is indeed a pleasure to have someone with your knowledge as part of the response group here. Again, Welcome. Jim |
| cs409 | I have seen the new 'smart box'.......pretty good product............ and again,,,welcome Pierre.... |
| Electricman | Pierre, #10 on your list is a no brainer to me but it seems to be the common practice in my area (I dont do it this way). I work for a mechanical company that employs licenced plumbers, hvac and electricians , so there are days when I get to help out the hvac guys with their electrical installs on homes that our competitors have wired and I see this method of support all the time, and each time I see it I walk over to the panel and sure enough there is a sticker on the panel for a final inspection. Even when I asked an inspector about it he said as long as the tywraps are at proper intervals its not a problem(HUH) Oh well thats my rant for the day Thanks Guys
|
| Pierre Belarge | Hello Ryan, thank you  Hello to all and thank you Support of conductors as in No. 10 - 300.11(B)&(C) There are no exceptions. It is good to see another forum. As Ryan can attest to the more people we interact with, the more we all can learn - which is what these forums are so good for. Pierre |
| Electricman | Pierre and Ryan, Heres another one for ya, A builder that we do residential wiring for told us that he does not want to see any bored holes through his floor joists or runner boards to support the nm cable feeds in the basement, so he told us to use bridle rings and said that it wont be a problem with the inspector. I have told my employer that this is a violation 334.15 (C) and we should not do it this way but it seems to have been the practice of the electricians that used to work for this builder and he is probably going to do it so my question is have you guys seen it done this way and what is your take on it.
|
| Ryan_J | I've never seen it done that way, and if I did, I would have to red-tag it, citing the reference you quoted. I have seen pictures of some new funky bridle thing that is supposed to be identified and listed for the purpose, but I don't see how it can circumvent 334.15, like you said. |
| lctrc789 | I live in a small community but work in a large city, I was local inspector for 9 months as a part time job in small community, wow a lot of backyard electricians LOL Box size was #1 reason for compliant Two ground rods # 2 compliant The biggest thing I hit on in commercial useage was conduit fill derating a lot of guys didn't undertsand the derating but NOW THEY DO lol |
| Pierre Belarge | Some thing else that is a situation in larger feeders and services: 240.4(B)&(C) 500 kcmil for services larger than 800 amps ... they are learning the hard way (unfortunately) that 3 sets of 500s is not permitted for a 1200 amp service, 4 sets are not permitted for 1600 amp service, etc... Pierre |
| lctrc789 | Yes, Pierre I do know that one, Many inspectors here have let the 500MCM get by. We use 600 MCM for that, as we just installed a 1200 amp service two weeks ago, and a lot of the guys on the job was like why are we using 600 MCM and not 500. So many guys and gals on the job and have been for years, I always tell them you should take a code class, you know it does change lol |
| iwire | quote: I read this differently, I am posting some examples of what IMO is code compliant. I am very interested in others opinions on this.  Picture One. I believe this to be code compliant. The nails pass through the interior within 6 mm (1/4 in.) of the back of the enclosure. --------------------------------------------  Picture Two. I believe this to be code compliant. The nails pass through the interior within 6 mm (1/4 in.) of the ends of the enclosure. --------------------------------------------  Picture Three. I believe this also to be code compliant. The screws do not pass through the interior at all, the screws pass through the exterior of the enclosure. That is my interpretation of this rule, so bring it on how do others see it. I do not use any of the above methods for mounting I am just curious. OK I have put screws in a 4" sq as shown in picture three. :) Bob |
| JerryB52 | Thank you Iwire for the pictures. If picture #3 is a code violation, I've been doing it for years. I've never been called on this type of box installation. I suppose if this is wrong I'll get box's with brackets from now on. |
| Scott Vickrey | Very good Bob! In think your pictures illustrate the "pass through the interior" concept very clearly. This is also how I see it. |
| cs409 | yep, as i stated, i have had the inspector hand me the screws as i installed them..... |
| Wirenutz | quote: nothing, there's nobody to write up a dang thing here... ~W~ |
| Mike Delaney | On those A/C / GFCI enclosures, they come factory with a 20A GFCI. If you pulled a 14/2 romex to this enclosure does it meet code? |
| lctrc789 | Mike,I don't see a problem at all with this it is rated at 20 amps you could pull 15 amp wire, but I guess I would want to know why you would. In bathrooms they require 20 amp circuits unless it was for garage, or some where else that lets you use 14 gauge wire. |
| kbsparky | IF that GFCI receptacle is a NEMA 5-20R, then it would be a violation to feed it with 14 gauge wire. You have to use a 20 Amp circuit to supply 20 Amp rated receptacles. See NEC 210.21(B) |
| renosteinke | The illustration in the 2005 NFPA "Analysis of Changes" makes clear that this part of the code is meant to address old-style boxes that have the nails pass acrocc the width of the box (remember the ones with the angled backs, for K&T?). Nails are still OK- the concern is that the sharp edges of screw threads might damage wire insulation as devices were inserted or removed. It is NOT meant to ban using screws to attach the back of a box to something....in that case, only the screw head is in the box. Fixing a non-problem, in my opinion. |
| Speedwire1 | Good evening all, I'm glad to find this site! It looks like there is a great group here! A quick question about the receptacle being installed within 25' of a residential condensing unit. I always wrote up people not having the convenience outlet by the unit, but I was taken to task on it and could not defend it. The only way it can be written up is if the "appliance" is either in an attic or crawl space. I believe this was an MRC (Michigan Residential Code) requirement as opposed to NEC requirement. I think there should be a GFI adjacent to the unit, but they took it away from me! |
| Ryan_J | Speed: I couldn't tell you what the Michigan code says, but the NEC requirement for this is in 210.63. |
| jagerbombme | iwire's picture #3 of screws through the side. i am residential local 176 joliet illinois and i've worked for 3 different companies, only one company i've found too cheap to buy boxes with brackets but rather spend money on screws and do it that way as in the picture. code or no code, i find that method of mounting boxes unsatisfactory in my opinion and a poor mount. i've been taught to use the brackets and if only using two nails or screws put them both towards the back holes, if the holes aren't towards the back then use all four holes. and use all four holes on deep boxes or 3 and 4 gang boxes always. this creates a sturdier straighter box. less twisting and turning possibly causing locknuts to loosen during piping and drywalling and trimming. plus it makes a nicer looking product when they are all straight and tight and plum. just my two cents. i try to do things as if it were my own, i try to make them look good and be mechanically sound. i take alot of pride in my conduit, wiring and whole job so i couldn't get into that two drywall screws through the side thing with the box all flimsy. |
| binney | Hey guys. It's my first time here, and I like what i see. 1st thing: You all, keep talking about the 25' rule for condensing units, but I don't see any mention of furnaces. 210.63 HEATING, AIR CONDITIONING, and REFRIGERATION. We've just started getting called on this. To reslove this, if the panle outlet is more than 25', P&S has a comb. GFCI/SP switch, I've been using them in disticts that require it. 2nd thing: I was using those comb. AC disconnect/ GFCI, but I ran into a couple of problems. 1st the 20amp GFI which I was feeding with 14awg. (I know better). 2nd; if you look in the UL listing inside the disc. it requires the disc. to be mounted a min. of 2' off the ground. I normally come out of the top of the skirt with my AC wire and mount the disc. on the house,which is almost always less than 2',(I could go higher with the disc. but on these styrofoam houses today there's no backing.) I've found it's easier to mount the normal AC disc. with a bell box underneath it. |
| ohara7 | there is a dissconnect with a gfci rec inside 2 birds with one stone. |
| Mike Delaney | The A/C GFCI Combo box is a good idea, but what whappens when there is no sidding and you have to stub out your wires..now you have to know the exact demension of the A/C disconnect, or use a 1" K.O if available...We usuallly just cut-in a WP, you have to cut one in on the front and back of the house, might as well cut it in too! |
| Mike Delaney | I was always taught to wire the garage and outside recepts on a 20A GFCI. And thats how we still do it, alot of folks around these areas are pulling them on a 15A, which meets code, but as soon as you plug a saw in it trips the breaker. And to top that, they put the garage lights, maybe one GFCI recept, and the outside on a 15A, so now when you trip the breaker..your in the dark! This post goes back to another one earler, why would you use 14awg for the A/C GFCI recept? I guess the answer is, so you can come out of the closesest circuit available, like a bedroom recept. Although My company does not practice this. |
| ohara7 | mike we use sidding boxes for meters nid cable and a/c disconnects makes for a nicer looking job |
| Mike Delaney | ohara7, Do the siding box adjust depth? I would like to see them, who's the OEM? That sure would make life easier...You always risk cutting the wire in the wall by cutting the recepts in after the fact, but is something we've lived with every since I started 8 years ago. |
| kbsparky | >>...You always risk cutting the wire in the wall by cutting the recepts in after the fact...<< In cases where that may be a problem, I use a Roto-Zip with the bit set only deep enough to cut the sheathing. That keeps the wires inside the wall safe.
|
| Mike Delaney | kbsparky, nice tip. Do you every have problems with the roto zip wondering on the wall? |
| kbsparky | Roto-zip wandering can be a problem for new users of it. You really have to have a firm grip on that thing to keep it on track, cutting in a straight line. And, a sharp bit helps a lot. -Ken |
| ohara7 | quote:mike thet are made by arlington industres. |
| Mike Delaney | kbsparky, I recently re-wire a house with lath and plaster. I cut-in probably 30 outlet box wholes. I would trace the box onto the wall, chizel out the plaster carefully, then used a roto-zip to cut the lath. The roto-zip cut so fast that it din't jurk the lath around, and I didn't have one path job in the whole house. I think the roto-zip is an invaluable tool. ohara7, How far do the arlington boxes stick out from the wall, or around the box? Do they look descent? That sounds like a fast way to take care of WP outlets. I have used those BIG wp covers that fit on a 3/0 cut-in for a duplex receptacle, which are really fast, but look a little cheesey. |
| kbsparky | Mike: The main problem with using a Sawzall on that old wooden lath is the vibration, which can literally destroy a section of wall, as you have most likely found out the hard way. The Roto-Zip solves that problem with minimal effort. Gotta keep a sharp bit in there, though. I think your method of removing the plaster first before cutting the laths will ensure the bit stays sharper, longer. I may start doing it that way, too -Ken |
| CooCooMike | don't you guys find that the roto zip kicks up a real lot of dust?? |
| ohara7 | quote: |
| kbsparky | >>...don't you guys find that the roto zip kicks up a real lot of dust??...<< Not at all. I have the vacuum attachment that captures and removes most of the dust at the source, making for a clean cut.  -Ken |
| CooCooMike | I didn't know that there was an attatchment for the dust |
| kbsparky | Actually, the attachment does not include the vacuum cleaner. You will need a good shop vac with a small hose to fit over the attachemnt. http://www.rotozip.com/attachmentsdetail.aspx?p_intAttachID=10 |
| CooCooMike | So I see said the blind man as he picked up the hammer and saw. |
| mahlere | quote: Just a thought, but probably has to do with the UL listing of the box. I'd bet they are not listed for a screw through the side. |
| stedder | I think you hit the nail on the head, mahlere. That's exactly what I was told by an inspector once (although he always let it go) sometimes and in some locations there's no way to get a nail driven or a box mounted without an inside screw job if an inspector has been in the trade at all, has half of what the scarecrow and the lion had they'll look past the UL listing (although I wonder what an insurance inspector would do with it)? |
| kbsparky | quote: Me thinks there is a conflict, then. For those holes are provided by the manufacturer, and why else would they be there?  -Ken |
| stedder | Ken, I was referring to a plastic nail on, if you use the holes in the steel box it,s probably ok 'cept I remember having to drill once... or twice. |
| kbsparky | >>... I was referring to a plastic nail on...<< Hmmmm ... I have driven screws (usually those drywall black screws) through those blue plastic boxes on many occasions to firm them up, or in cases where there was limited space to drive in the external nails. Never had any problems with the inspectors on that procedure, since the screws don't interfere with the wiring, and the box is made secure Even in "old work" I prefer to cut in my box next to the stud, and use a blue box fastened with black screws, instead of using those flip-wing types. -Ken |
| blackrd | I think we are all screwed |
| sparky13 | Hey guys , I am new to this site. I met with a representitive from Allied boxes and UL. They stated that boxes where not tested for the application of driving screws through them. Voiding any UL. listing. Our jurisdiction now considers that a violation. |
| kbsparky | quote:Considering the way Allied boxes are made (that cheap white fiberglass stuff) I would agree. Try to drive a screw thru the side of one of those, and the whole box cracks apart. |
| stedder | Ken, I think the question comes down to the insurance companys post- fire-inspection, if they can use the screw through the side of the box as a way to get out of payment this would be a good reason NOT to do it (since it is not the manufacturers intended meand of attachment)BUT, I have and will in the future, have never been turned down for it, have run it by the inspector and was pretty much shrugged off on it and DO know what you mean about the allied boxes
|
| John A. Peters | Here in S.F. they do not want nail heads inside a box but screw heads and bolt heads are ok, in the sides or back. I know from experience that nail heads in a box cause trouble when you try to remove them. They do not want any pipes entering the side of a handy box, unless it is sole a junction box with no device. |
| wilkie | On our vans we stock 1,2,3,and four gang plastic boxes that are UL listed to be installed in this manner. The only means of attachment they have are screws located on the inside of the boxes. Since our supplier, City Electric, stocks them, I haven't noticed the manufacturers name. If you guys would be interested, I will find out. They are only useful for specific applications, meaning I wouldn't use them for an entire house because they are not as easy or cheap to work with as a regular nail on. They are great for replacing an existing box that is too far out, or for installing a box between tight stud cavities, and stuff like that. They also have a deep box fill. They also allow us to stock fewer types of boxes on our vans because they can be used in leiu of a nail-on and in a cut-in application that is located next to a stud. That creates a lot of stock room on the van when you consider 1,2,3, and 4 gang applications. |
| sparky13 | Jamie , if you will find out, I would appreciate it very much. The Allied bracket boxes are very flimsy. |
| wilkie | Look them up at http://www.smartboxinc.com/. I will also warn you that the entry points for the romex to enter the boxes are a little more difficult to work with than say a P&S quick-click plastic box. I would not use them all of the time myself, but they are extremely handy in various situations. You can order them from my local supplier if you have difficulty in your local area. Their contact info is: Chris Nichols is the branch manager. They are fair and easy to deal with. City Electric Supply CO. 515 Airport Rd. Greenville, SC 29607 P 864-458-9749 f 864-458-9759 |
| sparky13 | Thanks , I will spread the word |
| Ryan_J | I e-mailed the smartbox people again (for like the third time!) asking them how to acheive compliance with this section. I'll let you guys know if they reply this time...that haven't the other times I have asked. |