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| Ek's Home | Forum | Chat | Electrical Links | |
| Subject - Bidding New Construction | |
| David Hyatt |
Well, as I have stated before residential is what most of my business comes from. I have not however bid on new construction since I have been working for my self. Now that I have a master license, I am trying to get in with Ryan Homes. This is a fast pace builder who builds 250-300 homes per year. I consider these spec houses because once it is sold there will be no change or upgrades. How would you go about pricing? Per square foot, per drop. How about extras: fans, can lights, cable jacks, phone jacks, ect..... Custom homes in my area price at about $1.85 sq.foot with material going up. To be competitive I will probably have to be very cheap. Maybe $1.40 sq. ft.? The other electricians this company has roughs-in a 2,500sq. ft. house in two days. It will probably take me and my helper 4 days. I will have to lower my standards as well (code min.) to even compete.  I have never really wanted to do new homes but business is slow for me now and I got to pay the bills.Help with estimates.  Sq Ft, per drop, extras?
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| JimmyDee | I've never heard of anyone bidding a house electrically by the sq ft. It has always been so much for each opening, extra for the can lights and the service. Seems like the going rate before the material increases up here was about $30-$35 an opening and $60 for can lights. Jim |
| SteveMc | Going rate in my location (Rock Hill, SC), is low ball about $1.50 a square ft. I don't know how long it will stay that low due to rising material costs. Housing kinda slow here right now or so I'm told. I don't do any new residential but have some EC friends that do and they complain constantly that they have a hard time making anything at $1.50. Of course, there are some folks here that are working very cheap just to keep working. I recently low a bid on a overhead service change, and adding a range, dryer and laundry circuits. I bid $1200.00, she told me she got it done for half that! |
| David Hyatt | Yea, if Rock Hill is like Greenville you know where all the buisness is going. |
| David Hyatt | There should be a price list some where. Cieling fans: $50.00 Cablde jack: $35.00 Something? Somebody has to bid new constrution, I hope. |
| craig | Boxes {receptacle switch and light} $40 cieling fans $75 cans $75 co-ax $40 cat 5 $20 bath vent lights $75 service $1000 (200 amp 40 cir) under gnd or overhead dryer 75 range 150 all other dedicated circuits 50 Houses where I live start at 200k. I don't see how you can charge by the sq foot because ther are so many variables. Some people may want "bear bones" and some may want sceen lighting wich can be $150 (cost) pes switch.  
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| John A. Peters | Use the slow times to promote. Rewrite your advertising. Send prior clients a quality assurance email, asking "As a business man and electrician, what can I learn to do even better." Write up a free handout and include; 1) a copy of your license, 2) a page of references with names a description of the project, the address and a contact phone number, along with a note about how to get off of the list. 3) A copy of a helpful consumer oriented article, 4) A FAQ of frequently asked questions that will make your projects go getter, 5) a Xerox copy of your certificate of liability insurance, a check list on the subject of a0 How to check out our contractor, b) How to check out the contract, 6) a list of abbreviations you use in your estimated, 7) a sample invoice or change order, 8)a sample of a typical estimate (use an old out of date one, with old prices. Staple the pages together and give the handout booklet out when you do a bid. I find that you can use it to establish creditability and trustworthiness to the extent that others can not low ball you any more and you can raise your prices about 10% for the same work! A.Q. If you want sample documents. (Send me your fax number and your email address.  |
| JimmyDee | John, thank you for that insight in the marketing of electrical work. I'm sure it shows many years of successful business. Jim |
| John A. Peters | Your welcome, What good has it or will it do, specifically for you or your business? You could forecast or wait till it does some good and then do a little write up here, please JAP |
| David Hyatt | Well I am about to submit a price on a base floor plan, 2461Sq Ft house. 111 boxes (switches, recpt. lights.) 1 fan 11 cans 3 cat 5 cable 3 coax 3 exhaust fans dryer, range, water heater, HVAC doorbell and smoke detectors. I am submitting a price of $5,200.00. Is this close, will I make money with this price? |
| JimmyDee | You are a little less than what it would be here in W. Michigan but without a lot of overhead, you'll do OK. Jim |
| David Hyatt | Thanks Jim, I can do one then decide. |
| cs409 | if your set up to do NEW homes, then you can make some money,,esp if you get in with a couple of contractors that like u,,,say with yourself and a couple of helpers to do ruff in....yall could handle 3 homes a month.....now if your only going to do a home now and again,,,,its hard to make good money..... if this house you bid is a track home, no thrills, u should be ok,,,if you have time,,,,play dumb,,,get a friend to call a couple of the companies you see around doing new homes and just ask,,hey, am going to build a new home,,,how much to wire so and so....trust me, they will do the same to you! |
| cs409 | P>S> one thing,,,makes sure your not so low that you end up setting a new price standard!! |
| Jjohnny | I would not get in the van for a 1.40 a sq ft. I only use the sq ft price for very rough estimates. I price by the outlet, adding in for the service, recessed, hvac, and other appliances. The houses i wire range from 2000 to 6000 sq ft, and they avg between 3 and 5 dollars a sq ft. I realize prices vary across the country, but with the price of material and rising fuel prices 1.40 a sq ft isnt near what a qualified electrician is worth. Dont work too cheap, it hurts all of us. |
| David Hyatt | I agree but hopefully I can get the job. Its too slow for me on sevice work right now. I haven't ever been accused of being to cheap, and don't want to start now. |
| gt350shelby | On the subject of bidding, There is no easy method of bidding! I usually bid by the book, The National Electrical Estimator by Craftsman. The current version 2004 is out now and you can buy these books which include a CD which includes an estimating program for approximatally $35 from Wal-Mart or other places online. This software include material prices and labor prices correctable for your area. One trap I've found is to be sure and notice ceiling height. I've lost my shirt on the extra time used dragging a larger ladder around, not to mention all the extra wire needed. Don't forget to charge for all the permits and any digger or other machinery rental. Good Luck! |
| David Hyatt | Well I must not have did too good, the builder called me back today and said I was between $1,700.00 and $2,300.00 to high. Guess I won't be working for him. |
| Ryan_J | Ouch!!!! Sorry to hear that David. |
| JimmyDee | quote: I don't see how anyone could do a good job and do it for that. If you gave a price of $5400 and you lob off $2300, that leaves just $3100 for a complete house. ??? This is a NEC code minimum job. I wouldn't allow my reputation be damaged by doing a crap job like that. Jim |
| David Hyatt | Yep, I agree with that. |
| Scott Vickrey | quote: You weren't too high, they were too low. I would rather not get the job than to lose money. There is nothing worse than working for free to save your reputation. When you don't get a job the pain is minor and fleeting, but when you don't bid enough the pain is severe and sustained. quote: I wouldn't write him off though. If this guy bid too low he may run into problems. What if they can't get along. What if the home builder grows his business. What if they run into quality issues. He knows your out there. My response would've been something like.. "Wow, how can he do it for that? The price I gave you was lean. I just can't afford to put my license and reputation on the line by cutting corners. You know how to reach me. I'll be around." In the future something will make him remember you get what you pay for. If it doesn't then you don't want to work for him anyway. Also remember that a quality sub-contractor is as valuable asset for contractors. |
| David Hyatt | Thanks everone. The Lord will bless and my work will pick up. It always does. I won't worry about tommorrow, today has enough problems of its own.
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| cs409 | the contractor is jerking you around,,,,if he calls you back, tell him your glad someone else got the job,,,that you miss quoted,,,,it should have been more money,,,, |
| John A. Peters | Drive by the job, later when you see they are working there. Most constructin people are friendly, and will let you walk around the job and see what you can learn (bring a hard hat, that makes you relly official). Not so much by asking them how the heck do you do it so cheap, but just checking out the quality of work the timetable and so on. Sometimes you will find they are quite talkative and willing to tell you how efficient they are, and so on. Who knows they may have some new labor saving tool or technique that they are willing to brag about, or they may be open for an opportunity to cry on your shoulder about how they underbid and are losing money. Usually it's just the electrician working here, and the boss is not around so you can't talk money but you can look at all the rest of it. If you see the foreman, you can always ask him how does he like the plumber, how does he like the electrician, because you're thinking of trying to find some work in the area or something. I hope he does not try and hire you. :-) Anyway stick to some version of the truth and I'm sure you learn something, you don't have to reveal everything in the beginning such as the fact that you lost the bid on that job. Of course all of the above works on any other job you see. Let us know what you find out? JP |
| Scott Vickrey | I like John's idea of reconnoitering the competition. The only thing is you should never tell the general anything you found and be prepared to be shot as a spy if your cover is blown. |
| John A. Peters | "be shot as a spy if your cover is blown." I don't think so (33 years experience) Let's look at this way. Don't you think if someone came around one of your jobs and was looking at everything you might be better off taking the time to show them the quality of your work instead of thinking there some kind of sneaky bad person. They might be somebody looking for an electrician who does good work at reasonable price who knows. Of course, if they underbid then they may want to learn something from you! John A Peters Any one want a copy of my residential estimating program? |
| Scott Vickrey | John, I was joking about the shooting thing. I think your idea is a good one. I would like to see your program. |
| David Hyatt | John I would like a copy of the residential estimating. |
| John A. Peters | The Contract Generator (TM) It is a mature program, and I have been using it in my electrical contracting business every day for ten years. The method of distribution is where I need a little of your time. I used to rent it for $10.00 per month to a local contractor friend, but now I just want feed back and ideas for improvement. Any one who wants to beta test the distribution method of the Contract Generator (TM) is welcome. You will need to Google for "Real VNC" and also "Tortoise CVS" and load them on your machine. I will help with any questions. Just say yes to all the defaults. Real VNC will allows two machines to link their screens and keyboards over the Internet. I have used it previously to demonstrate how you use the CG program. The documentation is only a couple of pages and it is easier to show it to you while talking to you on the phone at the same time. This is easier than the other way which it to invite you to come over to my office here in San Francisco. Let me know if you have a fax. Ideally you will have a phone line and broad band, or a second phone line for the modem, so I can talk you through simple estimate, and answer any questions that come up. I will use the questions as a pointer to where the program can be improved. A simple estimate might be one that you have done recently. Ideally it will be an actual job you did, like a service change or one room addition, where you know how long it took to install and what the parts cost, it so we can make a comparison. Tortoise CVS is a development system (Content Version System) that will enable you to not only down load a copy of the CG but also provide updates in a simple and quick, yet professional way, as improvements or price updates are made as we develop it in the direction of automating more of the common tasks like creating a payment schedule for each job. |
| AZ-Bilt | Here in AZ i bid my new homes at 2.90 a sq ft.. and 40.00 per can light after 12 |
| mahlere | We can't and don't touch track homes. However, I have a few friends that do, and all of them make some money one way only - assembly line. One guy lays the houses out, another guy does nothing but set boxes all day, another guy drives around the development with a generator and drills holes all day. Another guy(2) come in and pull all the branch circuits. Another guy(s) come in and pull the home runs...... Strictly assembly line. Most employees are low skill level and paid very little. Not for me, but it works for them. One guy does about 3000-3500 homes a year, averages 150-175 field employees, Grosses about $10,000,000 yr and has a profit of ONLY about $500,000. That may seem like a lot of money, but it is only 5%. Doing service work at a 20% profit and you only need to have about $2.5 mil worth of headaches to have the same money. You would only need between 15-25 total field employees (figuring $250,000/truck - depends if each truck has an apprentice or not) Just a thought |