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| Subject - Someone please tell me how to.... | |
| Wenger6 |
I am in the real estate business and have come across this many times. The amp service on the fuse/breaker box says 100 amp. Invariably late into the sale, we find that the service from the house to the pole was never upgraded from 60 amp service...or electricians tell us that the box may say that but the service is only 60 amp. How can you tell what the service REALLY is? I've had electricians stand outside arguing about what the pole to the house is. And is there an easy way to determine what it is inside at the fuse box that is reliable? |
| JimmyDee | Some of the old split buss panels looked like they were 60 amp because of the seemingly 60 amp main breaker in them. However there were 2 sections of buss in the panel and only the lower part was protected at 60 amp. The upper part usually will allow 4, 2 pole breakers and was considered the main breaker section. The best way to know for sure is to look at the wire coming in the panel. Any electrician that knows what he or she is doing, should be able to see the difference between the #3 or #4 that is required for 100 amp and the #6 that the 60 amp service is fed with. The wire is required by the NEC to be marked as well and many time can be read even if it is very old. Jim |
| Wenger6 | hehe, the wire to the outside box has been painted white to match the house, so the markings can't be read. The outside of the main box on the inside of the house says "100 amps" on the box cover. The main pull box has 2 60 amp fuses in it. There is another box next to it labeled "range" that also has 2 60 amp fuses. Below those are 3 15amp and 1 20amp screw-in fuses. the outside panel is also labeled "100 amps" under the meter. But the home inspector is insisting that the service is 60 amp. Does this help anyone? |
| ricky | I see some of these services that had two meter bases,one for the water heater.Then the meter base got fed from one meter and the wire at the panel backfeeds the panel thru the fuses,so there are two wires feeding the buss thus uping the service. Do I like it? No.I try to get a Service/panel change job when I see this.These also sometimes have long wires thru the actic or whatever not protected by overcurrent devices.Code now allows 3 feet of wire between the meter base and panel.Longer runs require a main breaker close to the meter.This becomes the service. |
| JimmyDee | quote: My dealings with home inspectors has not been good. You must remember, to look good they need to find something wrong with the house. I have only had dealings with one, (not to say they are all incompetent) that knew much about electrical work. Dealt with one that didn't realize that the #4 bare wire we used for the grounding electrode conductor would be about the same physical size as a #6 stranded conductor and tried to get us to replace it. Home owner thought the inspector walked on water and it caused us a lot of problems and time to show the home owner he didn't know what he was talking about. He sold the house less than a year after he purchased it because he was transfered. Now that my rant is done, go to Menard's or HomeDepot and have the person in the electrical dept cut you about a 2" piece of #6 and one of #3 and you can remove the cover off the panel and check. Many 100 amp panels that were installed in the 50s had 60 amp fuses (2 sets) one for the lighting and one for the range. Don't let anyone tell you the the old fuses are unsafe either. Never have seen one fail to not blow on overload and I've seen many breakers fail over the last 40 years. Jim |
| Wenger6 | Thanks Jim! I'll do just that! This was really a huge help. Judy Weng, Broker |
| Wenger6 | Jim, You're not going to believe this- then again maybe you will. I called the City and had them look at this property, and they insisted that the outside box & feed was 60 amp. I printed out your reply, then had 2 electricians (1 who was older) meet me at the house. I handed them your reply and asked them to read it before they looked at anything. The inside box was exactly as you described, and the house was built in the 50's. The older guy immediately said, "that's right", they did do this back then. They pulled the main out and then tested the voltage to the dryer outlet - it was HOT. The older guy said if that happens,(and it was a #3 wire), then it is a parallel service, therefore 100 amp service, not 60! He also said that the Realtors have been insisting on making sellers pay for replacing all of these 100 amp service homes because they have been told incorrectly that they are 60 amp. (in his opinion for no reason). The electrician is calling both the home inspector and the City tomorrow and setting them straight. All electricians who are not familiar with this, read Jim's reply above!!!!! Someone is going to wind up suing some electrician, home inspector, or Realtor over this and probably soon. I can't thank you enough! If I hadn't shown them your reply, and the guy that came was younger, I would be handing the seller a good size bill right now! I will definitely use this electrician for all my business now. Believe me, he will make far more than this one job! |
| JimmyDee | Glad it worked out for you. No I'm in W. Michigan and getting ready to turn my tools in. I've been teaching electrical work in a high school voc ed setting for about 6 years and I'm all done in June. I've got some friends in centeral Ohio. Down in Orrvill (sp?) where they make all that good jelly and jam. Jim |
| Wenger6 | Jim, Also, both the inside square D box cover and the outside meter panel had "100 amp" right on them. Didn't make any difference to the guys that were wrong. They still insisted that it was 60. WRONG If you're an electrician in west central OH, let me know! I've got a lot of business for you if you are! Judy, Century 21 Broker |
| Wenger6 | Congratulations on your retirement! ENJOY! |