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| Subject - Mr.Electric (Dwyer Group, Waco,Texas) | |
| blackrd | hoi |
| MONOLITH | My personal opinion, is be your own man; find your own way in life. Be no man's indentured servant. Your goal should be to compete with Mr. Electric and put him right out of business. Then make him your franchise. But that's just me. And I'm a little unhinged. Don't try this at home. Your results may vary.  Best of luck whatever you decide. |
| blackrd | well, at least 1 of 9 reads had something to say, thank you |
| John A. Peters | Develop your ideas here with us. Ask questions. You can do it on you own. Just my 2 cents. |
| wilkie | Franchises are nothing more than systems and maybe a little name recognition. Our customers have never heard of Mr. Electric, and all the systems are available, you will just have to collect them and put them to work. Why would you want to pay a franchise for that? Perhaps you would prefer an easier road to getting started and trained in this arena of residential electrical service? A franchise can be a good fit for some people. For me, I'd rather compete with them knowing I didn't have to pay the ridiculous up front fees, and ongoing "thanks for holding my hand" fees. Either way, it's just a simple business decision. Do you want to pay to have the systems delivered to your lap? Another thought to consider...who says their systems are even worth anything? If the communities we serve have never heard of them, how much can their name be worth? I don't want to offend any contractors who have chosen that route, all I'm saying is for obvious reasons, its definately not for me. |
| MONOLITH | To me, going that route is not creating/starting/building your own name and business. It's going to work for someone else, for higher than normal pay. On my last day, as I breath my last breath and think back over my life, I know which one I'd rather see, regardless of success or failure. |
| blackrd | Thank you for the responses. I really dont believe that a franchise (of this sort) is really worthwhile. I keep getting the sales pitch form the guy, and I think,beside the usual overhead you would have already, the fanchise fees and "royaltys" back to the parent corporation would be a bodacios kick in the posterior. If you gross $15000 in one week, $1200 or thereabouts go back to the corp. Then start deducting your normal overhead from there. Like I said in opening, I like their buisness focus and what I know of their pricing, etc, but I dont beleive theyve created anything extremely unique, maybe some adaptations of buisness, a little finer tuned for the ec perhaps. The franchise director says they seek out people with little or no experience (???!!!) in the trade they are franchising, so it makes me wonder why he is talking to me, repeatedly. Some of the other buisness's they franchise are as follows; GLASS DOCTOR, MR.ROOTER, AIRSERV(HVAC CONTRACTOR), RAINBOW INTERNATIONAL( |
| blackrd | I dont see much, if any benefit to becoming a franchise. I havent been considering it seriosly at all. 40k to buy in? I could by two additional vans. Gross 15k for the week, only to remit $1200 in "royaltys" to the parent corp, F-that. Then deduct all your normal overhead off that after the fact. Some of their other franchise's I know youve heard of; GLASS DOCTORS, MR.ROOTER, AIRSERV (hvac), RAINBOW INTERNATIONAL (cleaning franchise(?) never heard of it). The guys in my area ( chicago suburban) that were franchisee's have all mysteriously vanished, that is scary. I was able to locate one guy who was a double franchisee,( mr.electric and a mr.rooter) and he didnt have anything to say, positive at least. They can also , if you dont follow their sucess formulas, corporate doctrine, dress code,etc, yank your franchise from you (goodbye $) and resell it. Seems like you have to give alot to get a little. Mr.Electric, with 3 former franchisee's, has little name recognition in this area too. I dont see that they could give anything that you cant give youself, or that you couldnt learn here or on some of the other forums. I used to bid a job $80 hr and the guy from Mr. Electric said that that was high for my area , 30 miles s/w of Chicago, (I have no idea where he arrives at this) I have since been bidding at $125 an hour and have been sucsessful in even getting repeat buisness. Having said all of this, now I start getting info from ESI. I call them and ask what is it all about. They wont really say anything over the phone, they want you to attend their "sucess day". Is it just me, or are people coming up with new ways to get into our pockets? What can these outfits possibly give us that we cant create on our own? Thank you all for your comments. |
| John A. Peters | I went to a success day. IMHO, The program is quite specifically structured for high end service calls from the yellow pages. If you need strong outside motivation, with ready access to more answers than you have questions, AND you and have the capitol to invest in some trucks and training, then it may be good for you. Some get rich. For those who want a multi truck service company, with a full time CSR, and a computerized dispatch system, it is pretty neat! One good reason to join is that, once you make the investment, you will be motivated to follow the guidelines, or else you will feel like you wasted your investment. Members also like that ready made solutions are delivered in their lap, ready to go. However if you sign up, pay and then do not follow the program then it is your fault, and there is no refund, in fact you have to continue to pay until the agreement ends. If they helped you with your yellow page, then you pay dues till the new phone book replaces you ad. --------------- I don't think it transfers very well to the typical electrical contractor's non service call type of standard operations. I am self motivated and get motivation from my office manager, and my wife who both spur me on. I know how to ask questions. I read books, study tapes and DVDs and subscribe to trade magazines. I have an accountant, a "part time CFO" and friends in business who can share ideas with me. This forum is actually the best. Note to the readers. We need more questions from you. Please do use a spell checker though. Compose the notes in a word processor, spell check it and then cut and paste it here. |
| MONOLITH | quote: *Ding Ding*. We have a winner! All under the disguise of being there to help you, and not themselves. quote: Oohh. Excellent tidbit John, we hadn't brought this up before. So if I join ESI, send in $10,000, then start paying $200 a week; If I decide to go out of business a week later, how long do I continue to pay $200 a week from a non-existent company? Thanks |
| blackrd | John, you have taught me more about ESI in your last contribution than ESI has bothered to extend to me. I dont understand their need to be secretive, but I think I understand better now. If they told you upfront what it would cost you, and what it would cost you if you fail, they probably wouldnt get any interested parties to inquire. And what do you mean by high end service calls? and where can I get them? ESI sounds to me like a cult for electricians. |
| John A. Peters | Out of business! dono. ESI is better than that!! I doubt if you would fail that easily. They would do a cat scan of your financial position as one of the first things they do. We need one of those. It is a list of questions like how much are your sales, how much do the materials run, What is the gross profit, etc. They take these and make assumptions and the comeback with a report showing you where you need to look and what needs to be improved in your finances. If we have any CPAs here, maybe they can help us to setup one of those financial cat scans like that. However you do not pay 10K in front. They use multi level discounted flat rate pricing. The normal price is $12,000 but if you sign a contract today it's only $9,999! If you delay the price will be going up to $15,000 after we get the first 20 people today. You only pay #1,500 or $2,500 down now and the rest can be spread out over a few months, but it all has to be paid by the end of the first day of the boot camp training session which is a two or three day deal. If you don't think the training session is worth the money by the end of the first day you can get all your money back. I gather that the two day session (I forget the name) is where you really learn all the good stuff. You are given a flat rate book called Straight Ahead Pricing, (tm) by ESI) There is training on the use of the book. You can get some dispatching software which normally would cost $10,000 for a non member. You only have to sign up for the $300 per month maintenance agreement for the software. They are proceeding to setup some special software that allows the dispatcher to send information to the Tec from the CSR's computer. They're working on barcode readers and ways to send the invoice information back to the office in real time. There are business software status reports and keeps you on target as you grow your company. Too bad that I cannot afford to join because it sounded really neat, especially the high-tech computerized dispatching. I am told that the dispatcher can look on the screen and see where the trucks are located at any particular time via the use of global satellite positioning transmitters in the trucks. Theoretically this lets you dispatch the nearest man to the new jobs that I'm told that the dispatches have so much to do that they don't have time to look of happen anyway. It might be that the GPS systems are in the text telephones to the truck. Maybe someone should set up a three-year where we can talk about computerizing our businesses. |
| John A. Peters | quote: Calls where price is secondary. From a full page or double truck, yellow page add. |
| blackrd | 10-4 thanx |
| MONOLITH | quote: From this next quote, it does sound like you would continue to pay off what you 'bought', even if you closed up shop. Even the yellow book part sounds that way. Am I intepreting this wrong? quote: |
| MONOLITH | quote: John, are you saying that this is part of the sales pitch when they approach a potential member? |
| blackrd | Sounds like classic pressure sales to me. If you dont take this right now, it will go up 50% because everbody wants it. We like you and want you to have it, not for $10,000, but for the low,low,low, right now price of $9,999!!! |
| John A. Peters | You do not get to know the price untill the end of success day, unless you ask around. I am sorry I made it sound bad. Over all it was a good experience with fine people. I met some interesting friends there. People like it and it is worth it to some. Others can't afford it. You are looking at it without seeing the benifits. I am glad I went to Success Day. It was interesting. Yes if they design a yellow page for you, then you are obligated to pay the dues untill the ad ends, since you will be still getting the benifits of the design. |
| cvelectric | I am really disturbed by the direction the industry seems to be going in (ESI and franchises). Will the largest EC/conglomerate dominate 90% of the market in 5-10 years? It would be great to hear from some of the many retailers and independant hardware store owners that had to close up shop when WM and HD took over. I hope I am wrong but I'm afraid the train already left the station. There does not seem to be many regulations (from the fed. gov.) regarding monopolies and protecting small businesses. |
| MONOLITH | quote: I don't think it would be unfair to say, that using this type of extreme sales tactic tends to demonstrate greater concern for ones wallet, then the welfare of the consumer. |
| electrichi | Hello Folks It is interesting to see the controversy surrounding this entity. In my assessment, it is vital to look long term for our industry. We have got to all raise the bar in business, and this is one method to bring us all up. There are others. I am personally and professionally tired of new contractors as well as old for "selling" a job for less than what it is really worth, only to hit the client later for multiple change orders. I know some of it stems from the designers- architects, engineers etc. Isn't it time to get what we are really worth? If you think about it, we are all selling our time. So is my accountant and my attorney's- just at a substantially better "rate" than we are. So, it comes down to education. Learn and apply and don't regret giving any organization $ for that. We can get buyers remorse when we get a casket. |
| wilkie | There exists a sales methodology known as AIDA. It is a step by step process of how a sale matures from Attention, Interest, Desire, and Action. Notice the last component is action. Any salesman needs to offer the prospect a "call to action." The prospect has to be given a reason why he/she needs to act upon the offer now. If there isn't a call to action, why do it now? I personally do not think ESI's pricing structure makes them evil or ill-intentioned. I believe the discounted rate is a call to action that creates a sense of urgency. I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Kennedy before his venture with Venvest. I am not personal friends with him or anything close. All I can tell you is that from the time I spent with him, he had my best interests in mind and offered me a helping hand in that particular situation. I believe him to be a good man. I also believe him to be a good businessman. |
| John A. Peters | I may have misquoted the price increase It may have been going to go up a thousand or two not 50% Sorry |
| MONOLITH | I guess the only thing that really started me on my negative slant, and hopefully it has been coming across properly in my posts, was that when ESI was first being discovered/discussed, there where some that heralded it as the second coming of Christ. Mr. Kennedy was immediated lauded as a hero of sorts. What bothered me, is no one really looked at all the facts, like these "buy now or pay a lot more if your person #21", "Keep paying us for a year even if you close your company" tactics. There's only one reason to charge you more money than your partner who was #20. So all I'm trying to say, is, to me, I think bestowing the 'savior of our industry' title needs to be balanced with the fact that a smart businessman found a way to make a ton of money off of his own peers. It just seems like that is being overlooked, buried underneath layers of sales propaganda. Will organizations like ESI raise the standards of our industry, to the benefit of all of us? Yes, I believe so. I just have a problem with the sainthood or hero status, when one tells you you'll pay a few thousand more just because your person #21 that day. That's not helping your peers in the industry, that's looking to make a buck. Would I like to have Patrick's success? Sure. But I believe the people in this very forum that are sharing their own concepts and ideas for free among their peers, are more deserved of 'hero status'. I apologize to those that I have offended in some way by voicing my personal feelings on this whole matter. I don't think I'll be discussing it anymore, as I'm not sure there's much more to be said, and it's not really contributing anything positive to this forum; which thankfully is still a free place for electricians to exchange ideas, and not a marketing tool. |
| electrichi | Mono Good thoughts. I didn't go to their sucess day for many reasons you stated. It will work for many people and for some, it will not. Having said that, i read in a post on this forum, about PHCC magazine. I also saw the mention of Frank Blau. He was one of the founders of C-2000/Nexstar in 1992. (also, where do you think Patrick got his experience- C-2000). So, this was my compelling reason to join. They are good people with good intentions supporting all of us to be better than yesterday. I get tired of dealing with the same issues, from employee concerns to GC's that don't feel compelled to pay there bills. Things have changed for the better, for me and my company. And that i am proud of. Take Care! |
| Russell120 | Monolith: I doubt that in reality we have learned all there is to know. I am sure there are all sorts of interesting tidbits out there. I don't know why you apologize. You didn't say anything outrageous based on the facts as you know them. They are the ones with the secrecy policy. A number of people have posted saying that they have found value in these franchises. That's fine but the cost and the success rate is still not very clear. Presuming these organizations are really all that wonderful: So What? Just how large of a percentage of the industry is "high end" service calls- where pricing is no objective? Probably pretty small. They cannot change the industry, only their little segment of it. |
| MONOLITH | quote: Just because I have probably been the most negative about it, and sometimes I'm not even sure why. I also don't want people's impression of me to be based solely on my position in the ESI threads. Who knows, maybe 5 years from now I might realize my real subconscious problem was that I can't afford the $10,000. 
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| Russell120 | Monolith: I am sorry but such ambiguity on the part of someone with your handle is not allowed. If you keep this up we will have to change your name to Poly-lith or Maybe-lith. Hammer them! What we are dealing with here is survivor bias. If these programs sign up 200 people and after five years only 20 of them are in business, who are we going to here from? We have already heard that wonderful phrase "If you don't follow the plan you have no one to blame but yourself." I am very happy for those who these programs work for. But they can only speak from their own anecdotal experience. $10,000 is the price for entry. It just keeps going on from there. The system that these programs offer certainly has a dollar value, but there is no way for someone who is just getting started in the business to know what its actual value is. Risk assessment is handled by the "left side" (emotional) side of the human brain. We assess risk emotionally, and then we use the thinking part of our brain to justify the decision we have already made. When someone signs up for these programs it is all about comfort level, fear of the unknown, etc. The money valuation is very much after the fact. |
| blackrd | quote: |