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| Ek's Home | Forum | Chat | Electrical Links | |
| Subject - Liability from Home Inspections. | |
| MONOLITH |
Hypothetical; You are paid to perform a Home Inspection, similar to what is included in service contract type scenarios. Let's assume the house is old, a knob and tube calamity. You check the old fused service with years of taps octopussed on the basement wall, you recommend a service upgrade. You find some broken, non grounding outlets, you replace them. You replace a couple of basement and outdoor receptacles with GFCI's, etc. Later that week, an electrical fire occurs because a mouse inside the wall chewed on the knob and tube insulation, then ran off leaving an arcing disaster inside the wall. But no one knows what caused the fire. How much liability do we carry because of the fact that we recently did an inspection of the home? Do we need a disclaimer that states we can only vouch for what we can see, and not the integrity of the complete wiring system? Would the disclaimer matter in a courtroom? Thanks |
| MONOLITH | Here is a paragraph from a letter I am writing up for a client right at this moment. Just wondering if you would say this the same way.... "As per your request, I did a visual walkthrough of the property indicated above. I did find several issues that I feel should be addressed, and they are detailed below. There is no charge for this service, but please be aware that this is an older home with aging wiring known as ‘knob and tube’. This wiring tends to deteriorate after several decades, and I cannot verify or vouch for the integrity of the complete wiring system, most of which is concealed within walls, floors, and ceilings. It was also noted that other contractors have been in the home previously, and many additions, taps, and alterations have been made over the years." |
| kiwisholland | Good point. Really any time you do work on an existing system, and something happens, it must be your fault, right. You replace a switch and now half the house "flickers sometimes", etc. If the fire in question is large enough to warrant fire dept. activity, it should then be inspected by the fire inspector right? Can't these inspectors pinpoint the origin of the fire? |
| Alfred | Monolith It has been my experience that most of the problems are the fault of the home owners doing unqualfied work. They jack leg everything. Then after problems occur then and only do they call an electrician. Alfred Johnson |
| Wirenutz | MONOLITH, K&T , when buried in insulation, is a violation per 394.12(5). as most homes are insulated here in the NE, all flunk many insurance companys are now on a jihad over this issue here quote: methinks this may differ from our normal contractors insurance in that one is for a hands on fix of specific problems, the other vouches for overall safety indeed something to ask of our carriers ~W~ |
| MONOLITH | Thanks for the replys. I probably should reword the question a bit as well. I guess what I'm trying to ascertain, is when you do a home inspection, do you become legally responsible if something goes wrong in the house a week later? Obviously, we cannot see everything, and have no control over any 'changes' that occur after we leave. But, if you tell someone their entire system looks good, I assume they can take you to court if they have a fire the next week. How do you guys handle protecting yourself from this? |
| Wirenutz | MONOLITH; i can see this being very situational for instance, in my state no certification exists for 'home inspector', most are ex-GC's, and about half are being sued at any one time if in fact someone wished an electrical inspection, i.e.- one that is detailed on paper, then it certainly would not be a thumbnail approach. I might go as far as meggin' out the place. if a customer asks what my professional opinion would be, which they often do, i'll tell them i don't have X-ray eyes...or worse stare them down while coldy informing them to obtain a smoke detector asap if a customer asks me to fix a specific problem, i will do so and note what i did on the T&M bill, thus any electrical malady elsewhere is excluded from my touch a better Q might be, should we as tradesman feel obligated to address the mess DIY'ers create? In partial answer, that big Orange place runs courses for them, so what do they do? I've always thought that, as a retirement job, i'd work there and advise the populance as to DIY technique (probably with a hint of rum on my breath, but so what) all you guys still in the field will owe me a cold one for all the work i'll create for you too! ~W~ |
| SR Scott | Monolith, I personally would never use the word inspection for several reasons. First, here in Illinois all home inspectors are now licensed. An electrical license here is completely different, but you could have both. Although I've been to prep classes for the home inspection exam, I dont intend to become one because in my mind it creates a conflict. A great idea was a letter to the client detailing your findings. EVEN, OR ESPECIALLY SUGGESTIONS AND FINDINGS THAT THEY'RE CHOOSING NOT TO ACT UPON. Lastly I suggest to never use the word inspection, but rather review or findings. In Illinois if we said inspection and weren't a licensed home inspection firm we would be lying. I may be getting redundant, but it could be illegal. We are all justified in being paranoid about being the last one working on an old home. The story described was eerily familiar to a presentation from an insurance adjuster who said an electrician had to defend himself because he put two new breakers into a home that later burned down. It turned out to have been causes by the homeowner's faulty, unprotected and of course bare wire feed that caused it. That however didn't prevent him from having to defend himself for 8 months. 
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| blackrd | Although a hypothetical question, you can also ponder if you are in court because of a situation like you describe, would you be tryed by a jury of your peers? Hell no, itll be a bunch of retired people, housewives, unemployables with a grudge, etc. Your not going to have a jury filled with electricians who have been there, seen it, done it. That being said, the other guys lawyer is going to have a field day with your defense, and will make you look like an incompetent in front of that jury. My advice would be in situations like these to carrefully word contracts,and to keep notes of your conversations, especially in situations that you are apprehensive about. There is no better tool when you are being grilled than to whip out a notebook filled with comprehensive notes,etc. detailing your correspondance with an individual. Jurys , etc hoold more weight on this than a $200 an hr lawyer. |
| MONOLITH | When I sent the proposal, it was full of.. "what I could see" "Cannot verify the integrity of what's behind the walls" "visual walkthrough only" I also told her much of the work she wanted could not be done unless she did the panel upgrade. |
| Wirenutz | well a few written if's , ands & butts can't hurt Monolith at least it puts the onus back on the customer yanno, in my state i hold a seperate attachment license for fire alarm inspections. the state actually has an annual requirement & sticker for a fire panel i don't get many calls to inspect though, you know why? because i'm an A-1 HARDA** SOB of an inspector that'll take twice as long as anyone else that's what's kept lawyers outta my hair for years ~W~ |
| blackrd | Very good. I think the more CYA the better. You a;ways must do all you can to make sure you havent left yourself open somehow. Its a dog eat dog worlod, CYA. |