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| Subject - Stupid Question About Electrical Parts Prices | |
| Romex Racer |
I know your first response will be "there are no stupid questions", but please read on before making such a hasty response  Years ago I had the big Trade Services "biddle book" or whatever we called it. It was 2 feet wide and I got weekly updates. But these days I only do residential and I know the price of almost everything I buy which really is only about 60 different items. Once in a while if I need a 400 AMP service, I'll call the wholesale house and ask for a price... I currenly use no pricing service. I now am moving into commercial and apartment buildings and need some kind of database with real prices. I need advice. Here are my questions:
I want an affordable and accurate way to actually know what things cost without imposing on the supply house for answers. I've always been wary of supply houses, I've noticed that 3 guys at the counter, each buying a 4S box, will pay 3 different prices. Once I subcribe to a pricing service, can I ask my supplier what discount I'm getting, or in other words, I need to be able to know that if my software says a sub panel will cost $118, that that's what I will pay, not $130. I buy most of my plastic boxes, romex and cans from HD, but think that I'm going to transition to buying all my items from the local supply house. The supply house may at times be more expensive than the BigBox, but I realize there is an added value there. But I need pricing. What are your thoughts? What do you use for pricing information? Thanks in advance! |
| rabbitgun | I have always always always always always. Did I mention always? forced the wholesalers to provide me with a cost book for my prices. I have had them tell me they could not do it and I said fine I will purchase elsewhere. If they wanted my business they always came through with a three month cost book. we had an understanding that pipe and wire may fluctuate but I could count on the other prices |
| YukonRay | There are several services available to find appropriate pricing information. Most electrical pricing comes from industry standardized services such as "Trade Service Publications" Most wholesalers will then discount each contractor according to both the type of contractor they are and the products in question. Wholesale houses work on a Matrix or Tiered System of pricing. Items such as 1/2" EMT and #12 THHN wire are known as a lowest level item, lets call it level "A". Level A items move the most and are considered commodities. These item's prices, as already mentioned, can fluctuate daily. What you are going to get is a discount from the "Trade Price" If you are a seriouse commercial contractor that may be as much as %65 from published prices. These are the itmes that will be priced about the same for most contractors. Level B, C, D and maybe even E items will have a much smaller discount from Trade Service (or other standard) but will still be at levels that can be established from your wholesaler. Now if you want to know what to expect in pricing you can buy several different services that will tell you what you should be able to buy your products for. Most of these services tend to put your "buy" pricing a little high. If you are paying more than the service suggest, it might be a good time to sit with your salesman and have a good talk. I use Vision Infosoft's programs. They are great to work with and one of the most affordable services on the market today. Depending on how critical you pricing information is - Vision's Epic program can update you as often as weekly I believe. I think monthly is probably good enough for most contractors. Visions Web site is www.visioninfosoft.com - Ask for Michael Armbruster. Trade Service publications is at www.tradeservice.com Othe estimating programs such as Accubid also provide updated pricing information www.accubid.com I am not trying to promote anyone's business, but just giving you a starting point to look. Remember to talk with your wholesalers about establishing real discounts. They will tell you, you are already set up with the same discounts as the big commercial guy's. Don't beleive it. Watch the pricing as it is invoiced and pay attention to things that seam out of line. If in question - go to "Home Depot" and look at their pricing. If you are paying alot more from the wholesaler than "Home Depot" you need to have a talk with your salesman. Most of your wholesalers will discount prices but you have to ask for it and be diligent. I make it a practice to price out bulk purchases before placing the order. I always get prices from at least 2 supply houses and work with the best ones. If your question is in regard to how much to charge for a bid job than use estimating software, this will tell you what to expect for material costs. |
| MONOLITH | I recently went into my 'local' supply house and bought a 250' roll of 12-3 romex (among other things). I thought it would be nice to support and develop a relationship with the local supplier. After I left, I looked at the invoice; the price for the 12-3 was $72.00. Home Depot sells it for $59. I was a little PO'd. I would think that Home Depot would be out to rob the weekend warrior, and the local electrical supply house would help out actual contractors. Guess I was wrong. I'm still PO'd, and will be heading to Home Depot more often. |
| aline | I went to a supply house that I didn't have an account with. They were the only one that had the breaker I needed in stock. Price for the breaker was $85. A week later I needed another breaker just like it and went to the same supply house. This time the price was $120. When I told him last week I purchased the same breaker for $85 he did sell it to me for that after grumbling about getting in trouble for lowering the price. I don't think any two people pay the same price at the supply house. I bought a service at the supply house and later saw the same service at HD for about half the price I paid. |
| stedder | The price on the breaker is one thing, there should be more consistent pricing for account electrical contracter, account builder non account EC and street buisness. I know my local supply houses have a column system setup. However the panel @ HD is a different story. HD beats the manufacturers down to the point of the manufacturers building items just for Home Depot, Lowes etc. and these items are inferior to what is purchased at the supply house. If you went out and bought the HD panel and the supply house panel you may find a noticable difference in weight and there will probably even be a difference in ratings. (The stock # may be plus or minus a number or letter) HD seems like a good deal but there are many Items that I will not use from them, their service panels being one. |
| Romex Racer | Thanks guys, this is some good information. I just set up an account and am getting pretty decent prices, HD sells HALO H7IC for $8.00 and my supplier sold them to me for $7.14 each. I was pretty amazed. I go through about 30,000 feet of romex a month, I'm gonna watch what the wholesale house does here as this can add up. I'm looking into EPIC (vision infosoft) for pricing, and I'll check out the others. I'm kinda interested in just how there pricing services get *their* prices. ...Richard |
| aline | Manufacturers can be deceiving. I worked at an oil filter manufacturing plant that made both Fram and Quaker State filters. The only differences between the two were the color of the paint and the price of the filter. When we made Fram filters we painted them orange and when we made Quaker State we painted them green. We also made a passenger car filter and a filter for a Case tractor. The filters were identical we just put a different model number on the one for the Case tractor and it cost more. I have worked at other manufacturing plants and found simular circumstances. Sometimes the difference would be the quality control. Some customers would send our product back for any slight defect such as a scratch in the paint. Other customers would let it slide. |
| electricbill | romex racer... if you are going through 30,000 feet of RX a month, then your local supplier should do a LOT better than HD on price. set up an account with them so you can track your spending there, even if it's a cash account. also...make sure you are comparing apples-to-apples...HD stocks some of the same manufacturers but it's made for them...i.e. service panels with covers included or some not... bill |
| Mike Delaney | I use to buy all my romex through HD, but it was ackward to transport 20-30 thousand feet from there to my shop. Now I price out pallets of 14/2, 14/3, 12/2 and buy the cheapest from each supplier, You pay a little more than HD, but if you figure your time into transporting the romex, its well worth the convience. Once you get above 12/3 all of HD wire is ALOT more expensive than the wholesaler. The only thing I really like about HD is seeing the price on each item. As far as breakers go, you defentely need to set up a "preffered contractor price" through your wholesaler. We use HOMLINE SQD, HD price on single pole breakers are 3.29, we buy them for 2.00(supply house), ARCFault 34.00(HD), 21.00 (supply house). You actually buy the breaker cheapier than the supply house buys it for, then they get a rebate back from SQD. |
| Scott Vickrey | Ahhh free enterprise only in America and a few choise others. This topic is really good stuff. |
| kbsparky | quote: For the most part, items like reels of wire, certain service panels and the like are very competitive at the home horror stores. Sometimes they beat the local supply house hands down. But when it comes to the smaller parts and fittings, those items are jacked way up. So, if you buy all your stuff at the home horror store, you will certainly pay more. But, if you shop around, (if you have the time to shop around) and get the misc. stuff from your wholesale supplier, you can save big time.  But, as it was noted, time is money and if you're too busy to purchase materials this way, then you have to deal with paying more for some items. Of course, most local suppliers will deliver for free right to your shop or jobsite, while the home horror stores can't match that level of service. You have to balance which is the most efficient for your operation.
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| wilkie | The relationship we have with our supplier is more relevant to our success and/or failure than what we pay for widgets. Granted we do not get into new construction, so I could really care less what HD sells 14-2 for. I allow my supplier to make an ethical profit, as it is their right and mutually beneficial for us both. They will also drive 50 miles at midnight to bring me one breaker as well. Matter of fact, when they drop off said breaker, they thank me for calling. Another important fact to consider is that your supplier doesn't compete with you. HD and the other box stores do. Why would you routinely purchase your material from a company who is going to have an idiot hang a fixture(once purchased from them) for some ridiculously cheap price? Look at their plumbing and HVAC adds. They will come out and install more and more things. That is becoming your competitor. Whether it is a referral from them or not, understand that in their setup the electrician doesn't make an ethical profit. Why not allow your supplier to earn a profit, just as you need to earn a profit off of your customers? |
| Romex Racer | 1. My supplier will make a profit regardless if I allow them to or not. 2. My job is to buy materials at the lowest price possible. 3. My supplier tries to buy his materials at the lowest price possible. Ethical profit is a wholly subjective concept. At what exact point does ones profit cross the line and become unethical? 3 times markup? 4 times markup? If I charge $50 to cut in a recpeticle am I ethical, but if I charge $300 am I now unethical? Even the most unethical people believe they are ethical. I don't worry about ethics, I'm in it for the money. Period. I have learned that if I do good work, and I make my customers happy, they will call me again and I will make more money. If I am acting ethically it is purely by accident. Anyway, you're preaching to the choir, I agree that the supply house provides added value that I don't get at HD. Big time. They go fetch the parts for me, I don't have to push a wobbly cart around. They can get me ANYTHING I want. They can deliver, they have a huge inventory. I meet other electricians there, which is very useful. But I have been burned by wholesale houses on more then one occassion, I've ordered special unique parts, only to have them give them to their BIG, IMPORTANT customer because he needed them and couldn't wait. I've learned that they sometimes act in collusion with lighting vendors to fix prices, I've even had them notify their favorite customer ($100,000 sales per mo) when I'm bidding on certain projects. So, I know I'm not telling you things you don't know, it's not all peaches and cream at the wholesale house. Party on! ....................Richard |
| wilkie | It appears we agree to agree. What would you say to a homeowner or potential customer that told you they felt it was their job or duty to purchase your services for the cheapest price in town? |
| Romex Racer | My services are not a commodity. Plastic boxes and romex are identical no matter where you purchase them. My seeking to purchase commodities at low prices is not analogous to a homeowner looking for low bid. If a homeowner is looking for low bid, I'm gonna say what John A. Peters says: "we don't typically get work because we're the lowest bidder, we get work because of the value we offer". I love that response, I've incorporated that into my sales presentations... Whoop! Whoop! |
| MONOLITH | quote: Heh heh. It's hard to not appreciate your enthusiasm. Seems like your glass is always half full. I like that. I think John P sorta borrowed that line concept from ESI. But you're right, it's a great line. I'm whoop whooping it myself today...got a call from a builder in my own little neighborhood wants me to wire 5 or 6 custom homes a year for him. Doesn't sound like many, but in my neighborhood the custom homes go for 1.5 million. For my little 4 month old company, it's a very big deal. Whoop whoop! 
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| Romex Racer | Hey, good news on those houses! I just got awarded a custom home in Beverly Hills, the electrical price is over $100,000. This is the biggest job I've ever done! I'd love to have 6 houses a year from a reasonable GC. I think this is going to be a good year for all of us. Party on! |
| MONOLITH | quote: Urban legend.
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| Romex Racer | So true! |
| John A. Peters | quote: Negatori! I came up with that line many years ago, like maybe 1990. I sure do not want to have ESI think I got it from them since I know what they have done to others who gave out their ideas. If you are new to this, they said on stage at a success day, that their legal department had sued people and won abut 25 cases or some thing, an surprisingly it had become a profit center, although it was not planed to do that. Pretty scary stuff. Of course they have a lot to offer especially if you are starting out or are stuck with some low profit generals and want to make a change. Good stuff for you then. Gofer it. My actual phrase is We do not win our jobs by price, but by offering all kinds of good. . . . - Here I custom craft the rest of the sentence to match the particular situation. . . results well trained electricians who are on time appointments planning for future power, in case you need more some day. job, we us a GFI in each kitchen outlet so of one quits you do not loose half of the kitchen plugs. Here is another one but not as original The results will be remembered long after the price is forgotten. or this one is original by me To do a good job, I need to embrace your goals as mine- Ok what are they! This message spell checked and thought through, made in to paragraphs hint hint to new guys who seem to type in a fit or hurry. |
| MONOLITH | quote: Perhaps you should be suing ESI then. Patrick Kennedy is making big bucks from your idea. quote: Don't believe every intimidation tactic you hear. Common sense and good business sense cannot be copyrighted. |
| kiwisholland | Advise? After reading through this post, (which is exactly what I have been thinking about the past few days), I was inspired to call my favorite supply house. First a little background. I am just starting out in business, Today is our official, legal start date. But I have been conducting business for months now. I just bought NSPG Flat Rate software from http://www.servicedoctors.com/content.html, and am in the process of setting up my pricing. Instead of guessing, phoning or researching every single price, I too thought there had to be a place to get a price list. Then, as I said, this post inspired me to call my favorite supply house. Got forwarded to an "inside salesman". He told me that there was nothing he could give me or do for me to help with this situation. Wasn't even real interested in helping me set up an account. All I got was short unhelpful responses. Now, I like the guys at the counter a lot, it is the most convenient house for me, and they give "good" pricing even though I pay with a credit card (for the rewards). Am I being bamboozled? I almost always make out better at this supply house than Home Cheapo. But all they seem interested in is selling me the stuff. Anyway, You can get "The Worksite CD" from any Home Cheapo "PRO COUNTER" . It is based on Craftsman books' National Estimator program. Every time you start it up, it offers to update pricing according to your local Home Depot. Good help for general items. |