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| Subject - upgrade to 200Amp panel | |
| mygirlsthree | I want to remove my 100Amp panel and upgrade to a 200Amp panel. I know the first thing I need to do is talk to my utility to make sure I have the adequate drops for 200Amps. In the futrue I will be adding a subpanel in the garage but for right now, I only need more circuits for the basement remodeling. Many of the outlets in the house and a lot of the wiring is ungrounded. I plan to replace this wiring eventually a little at a time. When I replace the panel, is the inspector going to bust me on the old ungrounded wiring? Should I not even get it inspected? Do I need to pull a permit since I am just replacing an existing item? In Wisconsin, thanks. |
| Energreen | Every Utility company I've worked with has a book that spells out their requirements for electrical service installations. They're free from my local area utilities. They also have them posted on their web sites. This would be a good place to start. Once you understand their basic policies and specifications, call their electric service installations department to get your specific questions answered. In response to your questioning two ground rods. Unless you have the equipment to measure ground rod resistance to earth, in order to prove less than 25 ohms, you will have to drive two. NEC says 25 ohms or less. If not able to prove this, another rod must be driven 6' or more from the first. In other words, always drive two! The utility's book will probably reflect that as well. Also, you'll want to call your town building department to find out if a licensed electrician is required to do this. It may be that you can't legally do the job yourself. If that's the case, the utility won't work with you either. It's also a good idea to consider the liability ramifications. A licensed, insured electrician is worth the cost. |
| kbsparky | Usually, your electrician is responsible for coordination with the power company, as well as permits and inspections. Were you planning to attempt such a job yourself? |
| Ryan | I live in PDC Wisconsin and everytime I do a service change you have to call it in to the utility they will set up a time to come unhook you then they will come back later in the day and rehook you. The utility will inspect the wire size on the outside of the house and make shure you have two ground rods than make you sign a card saying the service is up to code on the inside of the house |
| mygirlsthree | I was planning to attempt this job myself. I am an industrial elctrician so I am quite capable of doing the work, however I am not familiar enough with the legalities and the codes. Regardless of who does the work, if I get it inspected, will I pass code without replacing all the old ungrounded wiring? Two ground rods? Can I, myself sign the card saying the service is up to code on the inside of the house? Is that saying everything in the house is up to code or just the current panel work and grounding? PDC? Thanks |
| Ryan | Sorry I should have been more spacific The card is just to state that the service is up to code and since you are the homeowner you can do the work yourself with out any grief from the inspectors. As long as you call the service in first run 3ot feeder wires pound two groung rods and use a approved meter base you will not have any problems also if the mass extends through the roof of the house use two inch rigid pipe if not you can use sch.80 pvc |
| kbsparky | quote: An interesting "card" you have available in your area. That type of self-certification would be ripe breeding grounds for mis-use and abuse I would think, avoiding inspections and such.  We have what is called a "white card" available here. It allows a homeowner or electrician a temporary waiver of the inspection requirements (I believe it's 15 days) so the job can be re-energized the same day as the service equipment was changed. But the job is still required to get a final certification from the inspectors, or else the utility company has the right -- even the responsibility -- to disconnect power until proper inspection and certification is received. 
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| nfsus | The NEC allows you to continue using the 2 wire romex as long as you have done one of the following. 1. Use two wire devices, with no grounding terminal 2. Install GFCI breakers or outlets to protect the device that has no ground, then use the sticker that comes in the GFCI outlet box that reads, "no equipment ground" and attatch a sticker to each plate. The use of breakers over recepticals is a debate that I dont get into, but the fact is clear, average of 11.00 for an outlet or 30.00 for a breaker. If cost is a factor, go outlet, if not then go breaker. I feel that they both do a job well. |
| nfsus | I forgot to tell you that on the 2 wire outlets you do not need to GFCI protect them, but if you put in 3 wire devices then you will need to GFCI protect them. Also I could not tell if your house is wired in romex or emt? If it is existing emt then the code used to allow grounding of the cir through the conduit, however that is not the case anymore. It is not safe anyway. If the conduit connectors get loose then the ground is broken and you get a chance for potential voltage. |
| stedder | Here in NY we install all components of the service upgrade (new panel, bonding, grounding if a mast service requires a guy the determination is made by the utility rules / guidelines, every thing is made up as per NEC. The service then must be inspected by an independent agency approved by the local utility / municipality, the inspector then contacts the utility (if the work passes) then the utility issues a job number (to the electrician) and sets up a disconnect / reconnect. If the OH conductors are in good shape and of proper sizing the electrician can make the taps, some utilities actually prefer / require us to connect (some hold local classes) others say, more or less, your'e on your own. Can you say liability? p.s. around here the work MUST be inspected before the utility will talk to you. |
| lctrc789 | All localities are different, 1st thing is to call your local city/county inspector, to see if you qaulify to even do this work yourself, and what they require if you can. Ask then what they require for grounding and then ask what they do for existing two wire circuits, Most of the time you can still use two wires circuits if you use two prong outlets and or use GfCI s to protect them. We here, if you are licensed and have a license number can self certify your own work and the power company will hook up self certification tags if they are ready and all meets the local power comapany rules. If you are not licensed or certified you are out of luck in many localitites however their are many here you do not need a license as well. |
| electricbill | certainly not to make you seem dumb..(you found these forums...LOL!) but it's like a bone doctor working on a heart both smart..just different...you know electric...but you're not fimiluar enough with the upgrade..codes/utility req....etc. save your self alot of grief! get some one knowledgable to do the job... bill |